What to do?

[Limiman12]

Have a first calver....  Due date was Thursday,  Since Tuesday night she has alternated between dripping milk and full fledge stream of milk out of any and all four teats.    Teats have swollen a lot due to strain.  Friday morning I ran an arm up her just to make sure there was still a calf in there, we have had newborns stolen from shed while we were at work, and sure enough there was one right there knocking on the door.  Felt two feet and a nose (rectal palp) calf feels pretty small.    Utter says she is ready, due date says she is ready, calf just hanging out in there.....  Any ideas?  Anyone had a first calver drip milk this long...  Starting to worry about long term udder harm and possibly mastitis before she even calves!

 

[leanbeef]

Like you, I would be anxious and impatient. But I wouldn't be worried. I think that's Mother Nature's way of testing your patience! Lol

 

[ejoe326]

Do you mean the calf was starting into the pelvis?

Is she acting funny at all?

We've had uterine torsions before but my experience is you almost always see something.  I would gently palpate her vaginally to make sure everything feels ok. 

Did you ever find your newborn calves that were stolen? 

 

[Limiman12]

Today she let me walk up to her while she was laying down in the lot....  She is not usually that tame.  One teat feels pretty hard, but milk still dripping.  Calf was just over the edge of pelvis on Friday morning.  Got up and acted fairly normal, just a bit more approachable then normal, she is one that typically will keep a couple cows between you and her, not wild just cautious......    What would uterine torsion, look or feel like?

 

[Limiman12]

And no did not find newborns that were stolen....  Only happened 2-3 times over twenty years, but when you don't know sex or color of calf kinda hard to find em....  I am talking about cow locked in shed, we think she is gonna calve.  We com home that afternoon from school and calf is not there.....  Onetime it was a big old cow and two days later we palped her and calf was not there.....      Looking back we knew when the calf must have been born because of disposition, we thought she was just getting cranky about being locked up....

 

[ejoe326]

That is extremely odd and really too bad.  Were these AI calves maybe someone had an eye on and happened to have a cow to take them?

Since she is acting so different I would palpate her ASAP.  Do you AI yourself?  A uterine torsion is something I don't think you forget.  You palpate vaginally, again very carefully, and see if you can find the cervix.  A torsion feels like a twisted up mess.  My reaction the first time was what in the world is this.  The next time I got part way in and said call the vet now.

If you AI and know what you are palpating you can gently see if the cervix is closed up tight or not. 

To be really clear I am not a vet and someone more knowledgeable with actual credentials might tell you something different!

 

[Limiman12]

I talked to dad last night.  The last calf stolen out of the barn was a purebred calf out of a cow I had bought that winter.    Don't think it was anyone stealing it for value other then to sell it as a bottle calf.    The cow's name coincidently was Calculated Risk.....  Her disposition was never the same afterwards.    We tried to graft a calf to her.  She would let it suck only if we were watching, so all summer long someone had to go stand in the pasture for ten minutes to let the calf eat.....twice a day!  Others were just normal farm calves, but at the time there were calves getting stolen a lot in the area......  We were easy targets because we had calving cows close to the buildings and were gone during the day.

Palled her again last night.    Vaginally got back to the calf so I assume she is dilated and lined up.  Still in the sac and calf still alive and doing well.  Did not like getting its nose pinched, then acted like it would literally suck my thumb.....  Nose and at least one foot right at the edge of the pelvis.  Having never felt a calf that way before it felt like. I think it "should".....  I think the letting us walk up to her is more discomfort moving because of her bag...

Cow has never been in distress.  They get checked every three to four hours.  BUT last night she was very uncomfortable with her bag.    Dad grew up milking cows by hand and says it is the tightest bag he had ever seen.  While she was in the head gate, we decided that the milk leaking out was not colostrum.    She had probably leaked it all out and it was what dad called second day milk......  We went ahead and milked about a quart and a half out of her and stored it to give the calf some of it since it is still a little bit colostrum. This did not even come close to milking her dry.    She already has mastitis in the front right teat.  Only got lumpy thick milk out of it, just a little, then it turned bloody.      Will have vet out to induce her and treat mastitis today likely.

 

[ejoe326]

I watched an 8 day old Angus bull calf jumping around the ring at the sale barn bring 400.00 a few weeks back.  Other calves not quite as happy to be there were 325-350.  It's bad enough to lose a calf let alone lose one to a thief.

Did you guys put up cameras?  I'm watching 2 cows calve right now while I'm in for lunch and they were worth every penny.  Our set up records so we would should have very nice view of thieves from all angles if that would happen here.

I was wondering how your heifer was doing.  Glad to hear it sounds like the calf is still alive and doing well. 

I will be interested to hear what the vet has to say.  We've heard mastitis is running rampant this year along with all of the other fun things happening.  Knock on wood that hasn't been one of our problems.  Yet.

 

[cpubarn]

I have had a couple of older calves "robbing" millk from some of the other cows that haven't calved.  Could that be part of it?

 

[Limiman12]

Gave her the shot to induce her this afternoon....  No calves robbing from her, we do have two second callers that stand head to tail side by side robbing each other simultaneously.  Had to separate them, they will at times stand n opposite sides of the fence nose to nose....WEIRD.  Cows are at dads house, I only get up there five days a week, it is killing me not knowing and not being there.  Bought land to build across the road.  Soon hopefully.

 

[CAB]

Gave her the shot to induce her this afternoon....   No calves robbing from her, we do have two second callers that stand head to tail side by side robbing each other simultaneously.   Had to separate them, they will at times stand n opposite sides of the fence nose to nose....WEIRD.   Cows are at dads house, I only get up there five days a week, it is killing me not knowing and not being there.   Bought land to build across the road.   Soon hopefully.

What did you shoot with?

 

[Limiman12]

I misunderstood when mom said they were giving "her" shots.....  They were giving a calf with scours shots, not the cow to induce.    I tried talking him into it again today.  His cow his decision,  It is killing me though.

 

[leanbeef]

I have one experience with inducing, and it went HORRIBLY wrong. It wasn't my cow, and I had nothing to do with the decision to induce her, but I happened to be there during the labor, and for me, it will forever serve as a very good reason to be patient and wait for them to do their thing. She's only a week over due, and while I u d'état and your reasons for concern and anxiety, I support the decision to let her do it when her time comes.

I hope it works out. Good luck with her. It shouldn't be much longer now!

 

[Limiman12]

FINALLY, had a nice little bull calf.  Did not weigh it right away, but not as small as I thought it would be.  About 80 if I had to guess.  Now I just get to worry about the next one, and the next one, and the one after that....... <beer>

 

[cpubarn]

Congratulations!

Make sure to post a picture of the little bugger...

Mark

 

[ejoe326]

I'm glad to hear all is well!

 

[Limiman12]

Congratulations!

Make sure to post a picture of the little bugger...

Mark

I will when I get a chance to see him.....  Born Thursday afternoon while I was at work, I left for a seminar for my rel job 5 am Friday.....

He is our first bull calf out of power2change.  We had used mostly sexed heifer semen and has been very pleased with calves.    No home runs, but the heifers all look like they will grow up and make mama cows which is what we wanted.  Dad says he likes this little guy.  No home runs, but no calving disasters out of the fourteen that settled to the AI. 

 

[Limiman12]

This is him but it is not his mom behind him....  he kinda looks like a bag of bones to me.  A big frame for 78 pounds.  I think he is a calf that will really explode in the next month.    We also had a cool colored calf today.  Bull calf either a week late power to change or two weeks early smoking Joe son....kinda black and brown brindle

 

[Limiman12]

Picture does not do the color justice....  in person he almost looks striped with the black and chocolate color.  Cool looking color.  Again more frame then muscle.  Heavy milking mama will have him filled out in a few weeks.

 

[CAB]

I have one experience with inducing, and it went HORRIBLY wrong. It wasn't my cow, and I had nothing to do with the decision to induce her, but I happened to be there during the labor, and for me, it will forever serve as a very good reason to be patient and wait for them to do their thing. She's only a week over due, and while I u d'état and your reasons for concern and anxiety, I support the decision to let her do it when her time comes.

I hope it works out. Good luck with her. It shouldn't be much longer now!

Not trying to start any kind of an argument here, but I think that there are times that may warrant an induced birth. I know that there can be complications associated with some induced births. I have maybe done half a dozen induced births over the last 40 years and have never had one bad outcome other than a little more difficult time cleaning afterwards. I know of produces that have had off the farm jobs that routinely induced cows to calf over the weekends that got along very well. I do think that it can be a viable option in some cases. I don't want PPL to be afraid to induce a cow if the situation merits the decision.