what would you do after sale?

[red]

This is actually a hypothetical question but thought might open some discussion. What would you do if you sold an open heifer & the heifer met all health requirements. The buyer used their choice of bull. Heifer is defect clean. When the heifer calves, due to complications the buyer looses both her & the calf. Are you responsible for some form of reimbursement? Would you just as a good faith gesture?
Just thought this was an interesting scenario & was curious on the feedback.

Red

 

[dutch pride]

In my opinion, unless some sort of guarantee was offered at the time of the sale, the seller is not responsible for the purchased animal after the sale. Many things could have caused the heifer it lose the calf and die herself that are not under the sellers control. That being said, I think it would be a good gesture and maybe make a repeat buyer for years to come if you offered the buyer a discount on another purchase.

DLZ

 

[Davis Shorthorns]

we had something simmilar to this last year, when the cow calved she didn't produce any milk and the calf didn't get any collostrum.  We did everything we could to save the calf, but ended up loosing the calf.  The mother was blind in 3 quarters so we after trying to get ahold of the previous owner without getting anyone we took her to the sale barn.  A few months later we got a letter of apology from them saying that they would give us the difference between what we got at the sale barn and what we paid for her at their next sale.  It was only a few hundred dollars and we didn't even buy anything at the sale, but we will be going to it next year just because of the way we were treated in a bad situation.

 

[TJ]

No, but I might offer a discount on their next purchase.  I'd also tell them that they should have chosen a Lowline bull. 

 

[red]

good point TJ. wouldn't their choice of bull play a factor? Also the condition of the heifer at calving time? Whether or not they called a vet or just did it themselves? also if an autopsy ( am sure that's what DL would want) was done.
Personally I'd replace or give $ back if a heifer wouldn't breed but not sure I'd do much after she was bred or calved. Unless there was a guarantee of a live calf at birth ( and then I'd want to be part of bull selection) I'm not sure where the cut off of help would be.

Red

 

[farmboy]

if i sold a heifer to someone who knows what they are doing (experienced) and knows about selection of bulls etc etc. i just stay out of it except for updates on how its doing etc etc. a new comer to the business would be different, unless i told them a thousand times not to breed that heifer to heatwave, and they did... well thats a little different to

 

[TJ]

Any heifer should be guaranteed to breed & carry a calf.  However, I just don't see how you can be responsible if they picked the bull, maybe overfed the heifer, maybe didn't assist the heifer quick enough, etc., etc., unless you guaranteed a live calf & I can't think of anyone who does that.  Offering a discount is a nice thing to do, and that is what I would do, but honestly, that is going way above & beyond, IMHO.   

Whenever was have sold full sized heifers, I always recommended certain bulls, but it ultimately is the buyers decision on which bull to use & many times they wouldn't listen to my advice.   

 

[red]

like I said this is really just a what if case. I did hear of someone w/ a similar situation & they were being asked to refund cost of heifer & calf.

Red

 

[frostback]

If too many people offer refunds for lost heifers during calving, what is to stop people 4 years down the road to say I need a refund as I lost the cow I bought from you? Auctions say that as soon as the gavel is dropped and a sale is announced that it is the buyers responsibility. Same as in Private treaty sales, as soon as that animal is in the new owners trailer or sets foot on there farm it is there responsibility. Too many factors play a part in a cows life that affect her life span and when that is out of our control it is our of our responsibility. Aside from genetic defects, no refunds. Most people selling heifers will say that if she has been shown that the "will breed" guarantee is gone too. That one I will stand behind.

 

[olsun]

I have a question about a similar incident. A mature bull was sold in the fall after breeding 30 cows. Seller said he would stand a fertility test and would guarantee the bull to be fertile. The new buyer did not test right away, and alowed the bull to become very thin during the winter. About 9 months after being purchased and starved, the bull was semen checked and found to be sterile, or at least very poor for semen quality. The buyer sold the bull by the pound, several hundred pounds lighter, and asked to get back the difference between what he paid and what he got. Should he get it ?

 

[maine106]

As for the heifer I would say the same as others no refund but would offer to do something on another.  frostback has an excellent point of where will it end? 

For the bull probably would do the same--no refend or paying the difference but would offer some sort of deal on another.  This time it would be clear that the semen test would already be done or would have to be done within 30 days.

 

[Steered]

I was on the buyer end of this deal...
We attended an auction at a pure bred angus breeder.  We ended up purchasing a bull calf with the intentions of steering him and my daughter showing him at the county fair.  This  calf was purchased right at sale barn price.  We were at the State Fair a couple of weeks later and had my brother in law doing chores for us.  When we got home we had a dead bull calf in the pen.  BIL didn't know what happened, came up and ate acting fine one night and dead the next morning.  Since we had intended to steer him we did't give the seller any trasfer information for the papers.  Well he calls us up and wants the transfer info and I explain what happened and no need for any papers.  A couple days later we get a full refund in the mail with a note inviting us back to there fall sale.  This was a nice surprise as it was not their fault and was unsolicited.

 

[DCC_Cattle]

A few years back I purchased a bred heifer and ended up losing her and the calf because the calf weighed 130#. We notified the seller and they gave us a credit for their next sale.

 

[LazyGLowlines]

Since we're talking about open heifers...here's something similar.  We know a couple people who purchased a young heifer, between 5-8 months old, was either told (or assumed because of their age) the heifer was open, then low and behold they've got a calf!  In one instance the heifer was okay but the calf was dead, and in another case both died.  What would you do? 

 

[redwingfarm]

I can relate 2 experiences we have had, 1 good and 1 very bad,  several years ago I purchased 2 bred shorthorn cows 4-5 yrs old, when they calved out , one of the cows immediately started loosing weight with severe diarehha, ran blood tests for Johnes and was found to be positive, I called where i bought the cows to warn him, and called the farm where these cows were born-Waukaru to let them know. to my surprize the Jordans were above and beyond the call of duty, they credited me the difference between what I paid for the cow and the market price as a credit towards a purchases at their sale.  Bacause of this I will always hold the Jordans in the highest regard and reccommend them to all.  My 2nd experience wasn't nearly as good,  I purchased a 6 mo Sonny heifer from a local breeder for my daughter to show, after her year of showing we tried to breed her.  It took a few months to get her bred AI and was checked by blood preg at 40 days, but came back in heat about 2 mon later, which i bred her with bull and same results, preg @ 45 days the heat 2 mo later.  I contacted the breeder and asked for some kind of settlement on this, even going as far to offer to accept the difference between market and purchase price, without any success, the breeder totally refused and began to blame me, my barn, and made very nasty comments about my abilities to raise cattle.  I contacted several vets for 1 last try and rebred her, got her preg and then used a series of progesterone shots to keep her preg.  She finally calved out at 3+ yrs old lost the calf and promptly shut down her ovaries which got her the truck ride.  Moral of the story here is while I try to tell anyone who asks how great Waukaru was I also go out of my way to let as many know about the other guy, even going as far as calling a sale manager to warn him about this guy.  I hope that should I ever be on the other side of the coin I will be more like the Jordans than guy #2

 

[rtnok]

I sold a 2yrold bull to a cousin of mine and his partner the had the bull for five years and then they found him dead in the pasture. My cousin said his partner wanted to know if I would give back part of the purchase price the only answer I had was no. Most bulls in this area are replaced at five years of age. roni

 

[simtal]

What do you say to a guy complains about a bull purchased from you and says, " I really like the calves but,..."  Isn't the main factor of a bull's value in his progeny?

 

[bcosu]

we were almost on the receiving end of this type of thing it looks like we might avoid it. we bought a angus in the fall of 2005. she was a march  so we waited till end of may beginning of june to try and ai her. we tried a couple times but she was hard to catch in heat. we showed her at the fair and then kicked her out with the bull for a month. when we palpated in november the vet told us she was open. so, we put her back out with the bull for a fall calf of 06. well, when we palpated the fall calvers in the spring of 06 she was still open. we saw the seller at a show that spring and told him we were having trouble getting her bred and she was still with the bull so we decided to leave her with him for a while. she ended up being with the bull for over a year before she finally came up two months bred this june. we were very excited to hear this news because it's like dodging a bullet. time will tell if it comes out right. cross your fingers until january.