When does a person have too much Influence?

[shorthorns r us]

don't tell that to Leachmans.  or is the plural LeachmEn?

 

[Jill]

I am sure I will catch a lot of grief for this, but your shorthorn breed would not be very popular or profitable if it weren't for the club calf industry.  I credit the great Double Stuff and his descendants for the popularity surge of the breed the past 10 years (he is what made me pay attention to the breed).  To me shorthorns are best in a cross breeding program, unfortunately there is not as much use for the purebreds commercially as there is in many other breeds. 

That is a really brave statement, but one I agree with.

 

[afhm]

quote]
That is a really brave statement, but one I agree with.

Glad to know I am not the only one who feels that way, and I hope I wasn't too harsh.

 

[shorthorns r us]

If you can get your hands on an AI catalog from '94 - about '98, you will not find anything that looks like Double Stuff.  Maybe it was because he was the first double dirty bull that was readily available.

 

[CAB]

I also hate to add this, but if the SH breed didn't get together with the Maine asso. I don't know where they would be today. Possibly better, but probably with way less #s.JMO.

 

[shortdawg]

PHA ? TH ? JMHO but we would both probably be better off without the other. FYI, I'm not bashing Maines, JMHO

 

[garybob]

I am sure I will catch a lot of grief for this, but your shorthorn breed would not be very popular or profitable if it weren't for the club calf industry.  I credit the great Double Stuff and his descendants for the popularity surge of the breed the past 10 years (he is what made me pay attention to the breed).  To me shorthorns are best in a cross breeding program, unfortunately there is not as much use for the purebreds commercially as there is in many other breeds. 

We also wouldn't have as many defective gene-carriers, either. When you clubbie guys move on to another breed, SP guys like aj, myself (even though the only Shorthorns I currently own are Embryos and Semen from ''unmarketable", slick-haired bulls ), JoeBnTn, we'll have a big mess to clean up.

All's I can say is "thanks".

GB

 

[DLD]

Their are still Shorthorns (and Maines) out there without "clubbie influence", there always have been. It's everyone's own choice which kind of cattle they breed - if you're not happy with what's in your pasture, it's nobody else's fault. Even though you may have ended up with the defect(s) unknowingly, you've got 'em because that's the kind of cattle you chose to breed (Please note when I say you, that's a generic you, not neccesarily anyone in particular, and it includes me).

And remember, the TH carriers in the Shorthorn breed predate Double Stuff by quite aways.

 

[garybob]

Their are still Shorthorns (and Maines) out there without "clubbie influence", there always have been. It's everyone's own choice which kind of cattle they breed - if you're not happy with what's in your pasture, it's nobody else's fault. Even though you may have ended up with the defect(s) unknowingly, you've got 'em because that's the kind of cattle you chose to breed (Please note when I say you, that's a generic you, not neccesarily anyone in particular, and it includes me).

And remember, the TH carriers in the Shorthorn breed predate Double Stuff by quite aways.

Yes, Sir, however, if one were to analyze the numbers, and look at Double Stuff, his influence greatly expanded the carrier list, especially as far as PHA is concerned.

GB

 

[DLD]

Yes, Sir, however, if one were to analyze the numbers, and look at Double Stuff, his influence greatly expanded the carrier list.

GB

Can't argue with that a bit GB.

 

[garybob]

Yes, Sir, however, if one were to analyze the numbers, and look at Double Stuff, his influence greatly expanded the carrier list.

GB

Can't argue with that a bit GB.

Not really blaming anyone. Nobody really knew what was going on, and blamed TH calves on BVD.

GB

 

[GONEWEST]

GB,

In your opinion, given that commercial cattle almost HAVE to be black hided not to be docked in price, do you believe that shorthorns are a viable breed without the show ring influence?

There's no right or wrong answer, lol. I just wondered what an "old time" shorthorn breeders thoughts were in todays market.

 

[shortdawg]

If you cross a red polled performance type shorthorn bull with some Angus or Angus + cattle you will get some very marketable calves that will bring top $ at any sale barn. So, to answer your question, I think shorthorns are a viable breed. I do think that, as far as the commercial sector, they would be best when used in a crossbreeding situation such as the one I mentioned. That cross has made me $$$.

 

[shortyjock89]

I have another question then...  what if the market accepted red or red/white calves and would buyers would pay as much for them as they would for black ones?  Would Shorthorns still be more useful in a crossbred situation?  I tend to think so.  A Simmi or Char or even a Herf....really any continental or british X bull on a 'Horn cow I think would be the perfect feeder/market calf.  Marbling from the Shorthorn, muscle mass and growth from the continental...not to mention the old school Shorthorn cows were pretty famous for being the best mommas.  I don't know about anyone else, but I've seen a good number of Shorthorns that are better mommas than just about any other cow.  Not saying it's still completely true, but I like to think that there are still quite a few maternal Shorthorns.  (disclaimer: I'm known to be delusional and somewhat barn-blind when it comes to Shorthorns..that, and I'm 18...I don't know everything, or even most things)

 

[GONEWEST]

I think the answer to that is sure they would. Before CAB there were no discrepancies due to color. As a matter of fact, here in the southeast, many buyers docked black cattle because the southeast was known for having too many "short blacks." (dwarfs). But CAB forever changed the beef industry.

 

[kanshow]

Before CAB there were no discrepancies due to color. As a matter of fact, here in the southeast, many buyers docked black cattle because the southeast was known for having too many "short blacks." (dwarfs). But CAB forever changed the beef industry

  And the funny thing is..  CAB isn't really CAB most of the time...

To answer the question about Shorthorns being a viable cross..  - well I'll only give my local observations.    If the calf is solid red or RWF with no roaning or spots on the body - the price is usually pretty close to the blacks.  The roans & spots usually take a hit on the price.    That part affects us with Simmis too because occasionally we'll get one that gets some pretty wild spotting and that will dock the price 20 cents or more.  We try to sell those as butchers.   

 

[garybob]

Before CAB there were no discrepancies due to color. As a matter of fact, here in the southeast, many buyers docked black cattle because the southeast was known for having too many "short blacks." (dwarfs). But CAB forever changed the beef industry

  And the funny thing is..  CAB isn't really CAB most of the time...

To answer the question about Shorthorns being a viable cross..  - well I'll only give my local observations.    If the calf is solid red or RWF with no roaning or spots on the body - the price is usually pretty close to the blacks.  The roans & spots usually take a hit on the price.     That part affects us with Simmis too because occasionally we'll get one that gets some pretty wild spotting and that will dock the price 20 cents or more.   We try to sell those as butchers.   

Then again, Kanshow, my favorite Simmentals are Full Flecks.

GB

 

[kanshow]

I like the full flecks too - wish they were more acceptable by the cattle buyers.   

Way back when I was showing - I had CH heavyweight steer at the state fair with a 7/8 simmi steer that was yellow with a big white belt on one side - weighed 1350 and you could still feel every rib...    YIKES!!! 

 

[CAB]

It's too bad that so many ppl liked old Double Stuff. As to the SH maturnal influence, lok @ Beefmaster & Santa Gertrutus, good cattle. SHs will marble with the best of them. JMO.

 

[knabe]

i wonder if cross bred dogs marble better.  they sure look like they are thicker made and put on fat better than the purebreds.  had a guy at work tell me the other day the best steak he ever had was horse and that it was  tender.  he said the french are not bothering with buying carcasses processed in north america anymore, and simply buy the horses and ship them over for premium restaurants.  don't know whether i believe him on either account, though i am not averse to trying it.  all we really did was create more starving horses and more expensive meat for the french, which, in the long run, is what the anti horse eaters want.  just found out bay meadows is closing.  there will be even less thoroughbreds bred now.  i guess we should just outlaw owning horses altogether and get it over with.  see how eliminating commerce just raises the price and shifts it to a less disriminating area, ie mexico?