When to put in a nose ring?

[reno1014]

We made the decision last night to put a nose ring in my sons calves nose.  I really didnt want to do it, but he just seems to
go from one bad habit to another.  First it was rearing up, then it was using the barn, fence or whatever he could find to lean
against and use for leverage when we were walking him.  Four days ago he started the sharp turn into you and hauling butt thing.
After almost not making it up the steps to church on Sunday (cause I hurt all over) I had enough.  This calf weighs 775 lbs,
Do you think the nose ring will work?  Or should we cut our losses early and start over?

 

[kanshow]

Is this a steer you are trying to show?    Is this a removeable ring?  If those are both true, then try it and see what your results are.  You need to get his respect back.    I would also only lead him in small enclosed areas for awhile until you know you have control back.   

 

[reno1014]

Yes he is one of our show steers.  This is also our first attempt at breaking a calf.  We were doing good, and it seemed like
he turned into a real butt overnight.  He is not aggressive in a mean sense, just flat out too big to be doing this kind of stuff.  My son
halter broke this calf and had him leading pretty good in a weeks time then the little crap started and now this, he also seems to
be a little bit on the freaky side...big eyed and shaky.  On the other hand he will come up and eat out of your hand.  When he gets
away he will let you get really close to him and then start walking off but not running.  I just dont know what to think.

 

[fluffer]

Hmm,  Have you tried a donkey or walking him behind a tractor?  A nose lead may work.  It is hard to say, every calf is different.  I actually had a calf that we tried to break and he just wouldn't give in.  The family took him home and bought one of those big orange wiffle ball batts and when the calf would put his head down to get away they would wack him in the head with the batt.  (not my idea by the way)  But it broke him.  If he is flighty you may have a hole nother fight on your hands at a show if something spooks him.  I would try a donkey or tractor and see how that goes.  How old/big is your son.  If he is just starting out you may want to scrap and start again for fear of hurting your son or leaving a bad taste in his mouth over cattle.  if he is older then you may try to fight it out.  Most calves can be broke.  The ones that can not be broke are the 1200 lb ones that have been gettign away with crap from day 1.  I think yours is breakable    Also I agree with the previous poster, decrease your walking area so if he tries to get away he can't.

Good luck!!

Fluffer

 

[red]

when they find they can get away & run you're toast!

Red

 

[knabe]

what they are doing is outthinking you.  put yourself in their shoes.  if i just pull on this lead rope a little more each time, i can train this human to incrementally do less and less each time to get ahead of me, and pretty soon, they will leave me alone.  all it takes is the reward of getting left alone when i do something bad is the only taste the need to keep trying.  it's like the cookie jar for kids at 3:30.  parents wait till the kid has one hand in the cookie jar, and the other with a cookie in their mouth and then they punish them.

this is what i would do at this point.

make small little pulls with a very very long lead rope, that is about 3 feet shorter than the diameter of your pen.  if you calf wants to pull, NEVER NEVER let him pull on anything, just drop the lead rope  with one hand, and if he takes off, big deal.  gather him up, and only approach him if he is stopped.  you are not training him to be a bucking horse, which is probably essentially he has become to some extent.  you need to work on both sides of this calf.  make little pulls and hold them, and let him put the slack in the rope, and then scratch him on his favorite spot.  some animals like to be scratched between the inside top of their legs, between their front legs, and between their shoulder blades, and aboout 6 inches behind their polls and behind their ears. 

gradually make the pulls translate into getting his feet to move.  work both sides.  working on the off side gets him used to other people, such as say a judge or a competitor or a audience member leaning over the rail.

when an animal that likes to take off engages their rear end, their inside rear leg is always stepping in front of their other rear leg when going in a circel.  if you get them to make that step BEHIND the ooutside leg, you are disengaging the engine.  then pet.  he needs to know that park is a good place to be.  the more you quit on a good note the better.

think about it, if you think about this like every time this is a date with the same gal or guy, and it always ends on a bad note, yet you have no escape, more and more time is going to be spent on trying to get that date to leave you alone.  it's like saying your but is big instead of saying , you know i had a good time, do you want to go out tomorrow too?

 

[reno1014]

My son is 15 years old.  He is almost 6ft and 200 lbs.  This is only the second show calf we have had, and last year our calf was a little baby.
I am a mom and average size for a farm girl.  I dont worry so much about him getting hurt as getting discouraged and becoming afraid of him.
I know he worries about me, because I am not afraid of the calves I just dont like to feel 85 and walk like I do in the mornings.  We work as a team
because it does take us both to do all the work and I like it as much as he does.  I get a better work out with this calf than I do going to the gym.
Thus I save 50 dollars a month now on membership!

 

[thepoorfarm]

We have had this problem with some 4- H members calves before, though I dont like doing it, it does work. we put a post in the ground in a smaller area, walk the calf with two ropes attached, one a long line and then a regular rope, you have to use the old style nylon halter for this, walk the calf around and if he gets his head down and pulls away ,runs, he will "clothes-line" himself, usually they will flip themselves..once or twice of this , they wont do it again. They seem to think the handler did it....like I said,I dont like having to get to this point but sometimes you dont have any other option. Hope this helps, always wondered about the donkeys, we unfortunatly dont have one... ;D   

 

[Bawndoh]

gradually make the pulls translate into getting his feet to move.  work both sides.  working on the off side gets him used to other people, such as say a judge or a competitor or a audience member leaning over the rail.

This is one reason to work to the "side" of a calf.  The other, is that you have much more strength pulling an animal to the side, versus straight ahead.  Heck when the dog doesnt want to cooperate it can be hard to pull them straight ahead.  Have you ever heard of "cow tipping?"  Well it is so easy because you push the cow from the side.  Nobody has lots of strength when they get pushed or pulled sideways. 
Anyhow, also, work in a small pen, like everyone else said.  This will help tremendously.  Knabe mentioned pulling the END of the lead.  This, combined with pulling to the side, will really work well.  Pulling sideways+pulling from the end=a HECK of a lot of leverage for YOU and not the calf.  When things start to progress and you get outside walking around a lot more, remember to never hold the halter right against their face.  You have absolutely NO strength there, and when that animal decides that it is pi$$ed off, it will throw its head, and yank your arm like heck.  Just like horses, and people, cattle need that minimum 6 inches of "personal space".
Think of it this way...say your friend comes up to you and grabs your sweater and pulls you to where she wants you to go by the sweater......UNCOMFORTABLE!!  It would, however, be much more comfortable if they perhaps grabbed your hand and pulled you there.

Good Luck, let us know how the progress is going.

 

[showgirl2010]

I agree with fluffer. The mules or donkeys will show them respect and they will lead a WHOLE lot better.

Jamie

 

[Bawndoh]

I agree with fluffer. The mules or donkeys will show them respect and they will lead a WHOLE lot better.

Jamie

Sure this might work, but cattle are not stupid and they know the difference between a donkey and a human.  Most of the time they misbehave because they know it will mean they can go "home" for the day, and to pi$$ a human off.  I have seen a lot of swollen faces, and STILL untrained calves at shows cause the donkey never fixed anything!

 

[reno1014]

Just wanted to say a big THANK YOU to everyone for advice.  We took this steer to a show Saturday in Seymour Tx.  He was very
nervous but he did quite well.  I think all that hauling and standing around near other calves and lots of noise worked wonders.
He is a totally different calf now than he was two weeks ago!  We didnt place very well, but we had a good time and the calf
showed very well considering all. 

 

[red]

Just wanted to say a big THANK YOU to everyone for advice.  We took this steer to a show Saturday in Seymour Tx.  He was very
nervous but he did quite well.  I think all that hauling and standing around near other calves and lots of noise worked wonders.
He is a totally different calf now than he was two weeks ago!  We didnt place very well, but we had a good time and the calf
showed very well considering all. 

Congrats & glad it worked out well for you! That first show is always the roughest & if they have no bad memories they usually do fine after that. A big  (thumbsup)

Red