When we get where we’re going… will we know why we’re here?

[aj]

Genetic diversity is important. I remember Roy Wallace of select sires telling stories of going out in the back woods to find cattle that had more frame or whatever. This was when the British breeds were trying to find bigger cattle in say the early 70's. He claimed he would load up the car with pop,twinkies, chips and whatever and drive to the end of some state, to a breeder that didn't follow the trends or fads or whatever for 10 or 15 years. I know he found a herford bull this way that they sold alot of semen on. He was a performance based bull that didn't follow the short squaty trend of the day. HUBS shorthorns was the same deal. The association let the milkers in the herdbook and they were sitting on a herd of linebred cattle that everyone wanted. There is nothing wrong with people having genetics like kit pharo either. There at the headquarters they have had 2 inches of rain for the year. So it doesn't hurt to argue over type and whatnot but we do need to remember different genetics is good to have for a backup. Who would have thought Leader 21st semen would ever be used in 2008 but it is of value to go back to some of the old traits bred out of the modern cattle. And different lines are good also. What happens when a genetic defect is discovered in a line of cattle. We need diversity. Not everybody should use trump on rodeo drive on a whatever. I say here here to the people who develop their own line of cattle and don't look back. ;D

 

[JoeBnTN]

Howdy Joe B

Couple of questions.

  If your friend "John" has had numerous national champions, big sales with purebred animals, why is he so "anti-show cattle" now?  I would think that someone with that many credentials would understand that most of this showing is just a game.  We all know that it is a means to promote your cattle/ranch program.  No different than breeding by numbers only and crowing to your customers about your animals being in the top 1 percentile for every trait imaginable.  If you have ever watched the movie "stripes" you should remember the scene when the guy named psysho is bashing on everyone in his platoon and that if anyone calls him Francis, (his real name) then he will kill them.  Sargent Hukla looks him strait in the eye and says "lighten up, Francis" .  That's how most folks should view exibiting cattle and life in general in my opinion.  Historically, cattle that have been the most polific, if not then most heavily promoted, are the freaks that change the average bovine.  When you sit on the sidelines and watch, then yes, showing cattle is stooopid, but it does bring change.  We can diss this segment of the beef industry, but it does bring us change.  Was Ayatolla a changer? you bet, did he do everything right?  Nope.  How about the angus bull Sport?  Huge changer, big time award winner, heavily promoted..... bad mule foot.  Rodeo Drive, big changer, made the cattle in the shorthorn breed different.  Even if we are all middle of the road, we still need to look outside the box/pasture for things to make our industry/herd better.  That means at least analyzing other animals to see if they work for you.  I truely think that in regard to judges, I agree 100% with JIT in that we use too many folks to evaluate cattle that haven't raised any for a living.  But on the flip side, if you ever judge a show, do you want your picture taken in front of the backdrop with an ugly, real world kind?  I would use the not so pretty, real world one, and when folks gave me heck about it after the show, their reply from me would be "lighten up Francis".

Troy,

Sorry to be so slow in responding, but I've been out of town for the past several days. While I don’t want to speak for “John” I do think I can answer your question, as we talked about this a lot the other day.  Back in their earlier days “John” and his family made very good money raising cattle (not Shortys) and, as I said had a very good production sale each year.  But in addition to their production sale they also sold 20-25 commercial bulls at a premium each year from the same cow herd with the same genetics.  Today he says he can’t do both – the type cattle that work in the show ring will not work for his commercial customers.  The thing he blames the most for this is birth weight and skeletal mass.  What got us talking about this was the heifer that was standing above his grandson at the show.  They had been to the sale (at a very well know breeder who has been highly successful at a national level) and had considered buying this heifer.  They quickly gave up when the farm manager told them she weighed 120 lbs. at birth and darn near killed her dam with a hard pull.  Now she is one heck of a show heifer (did real well at their Jr. Nationals) but how many people truly want heifers like that?

You know me well enough to know that I think you can have it both ways.  There are a lot of really good “show” cattle that have produced top commercial cattle for many breeds – bulls like Pine Drive Big Sky in the Angus breed and Enforcer 107H in the Polled Herefords used to be fairly common.  Even a little breeder like our family did that – do you remember our All American bull Excitement?  He went to Washington and sired the top selling Shorthorn range bulls at Spokane, Walla Walla and Red Bluff for several years, as well as having sons that were winning most of the shows out there.

As I said, what I think has happened is we’ve gone too far in selecting “maximums” rather than “optimums.”  I agree with “John” the pendulum has swung as far as it can in selecting maximums and we’re going to see it come back – not even those who breed solely for the show ring can last too long with 125-140 lb. calves.  Are there differences between “show” cattle and “real world” cattle?  Of course and there always will be.  I just don’t think they have to be as far apart as they are now.

BTW, the picture of the Goldmine 2109 son you put up is a great example.  He sure looks like one heck of a bull – either standing behind him on the green shavings or watching him out with 30 cows.  I think he’s one of the best young bulls (from a picture) that I’ve seen in some time. When are you going to put up the picture of your 23G bull? 

Joe