Who was the first truely clubby bull?

[red]

was thinking about this last night as I laid freezing (no sound machine to drown out wind). Who was the first real clubby bull & why?

Red

 

[knabe]

probably subject to definition, but my def is something that produced an F1 or something similar.

ildeno or someone earlier.

why?  because of maximized hybrid vigor, with a combo of style.  a true maximized terminal cross.

the more we push vigor on both sides of the parents, therefore diluting it, the further you get away from a supposedly "ideal" product which allows the producer to gain maximum benefit of producing f1's.

 

[clifflem]

Sugar Ray was one of the first clubby bulls promoted as such.  I remember seeing him in Denver when he was a calf.  He was solid black at that time, but was brown and silver when he matured.  Some of those cattle were really good at that time, but their dispositions weren't the best.  

 

[Lucky7]

One of the first maine bulls imported was Epinal.  But I agree that Sugar Ray was probably the one that started it all

 

[knabe]

sugar ray, born 1981
ildeno, born 1972

sugar ray  http://www.acaregistry.org/detail.aspx?reg=104815
ildeno  http://www.acaregistry.org/detail.aspx?reg=19000

i'm thinking there were a few more calves on the ground by ildeno that were club calves than sugar ray who was the cat's meow in college cause he was black and had more breeding flexibility because of it than ildeno, who was a fullblood and direct import.

ildeno calves were already winning club calf shows when sugar ray got started.

 

[aj]

I was going to say ildeno or cunia.

 

[xxcc]

any of you guys have experience with n old Chi fullblood by the name of Iroito?

i think cunia was a 1969 model

 

[justintime]

We dragged a number of steers around in the early to mid 70s that were mostly Cunia sired. Occasionally we had a pretty good Covino 111 steer if he came from a smaller framed Shorthorn cow. Those were the best clubby type steer sires I can remember.... but then the definition of a clubby sire has changed over time... just like most every other trend in this business.

 

[JoeBnTN]

Cunia and Ildeno come to mind. 

If you ever had an Ildeno steer you would remember him.  We showed 3-4 over the years and they were all alike - big framed (by today's standards), lots of LEAN muscle, super pattern and meaner than a snake!!

 

[TJ]

any of you guys have experience with n old Chi fullblood by the name of Iroito?

i think cunia was a 1969 model

Funny you mention Irotio.  My first registered Chi heifer's dam had "Irotio" in her name and she traced back to him.  She had Lombard & Imilo on the top side.  BIG COW... BIG HEAD... hated people when she calved... mauled one of our hired hands & broke his ribs one time when he "tried" to tag her calf.   She was a nice show heifer, but never had a tremendous calf, but always raised a BIG ONE... like 800 lbs. at weaning time big... but she should have... she was around ton herself!   Bred her to HB High Expectation in the hopes of a great one, but that calf just didn't have what it took.  She needed a bull like Doc Holliday in the worst kind of way.  Framed down, more guts, more butt, etc.    

Smitty, Epinel, Friggio, Indolo, Igiso, Ficoso, Ildeno, Walco (Should've been Wacko!) KY Colonel, RCC MR Lorenzo 239B... those were some of the earlier Chi Bloodlines that we used... I'm sure that I am forgetting some.  Smitty was the tallest bull that we ever had on our place.  All of our neighbors couldn't believe how tall he was.  We had one Smitty daughter that was tremendous.  A not so well known fact is that the 2007  (not 1997... opps!)  Grand Champion Percentage Lowline Bull at Kansas City traced back to that awesome cow & to Smitty through his Tarentaise dam that we had bred up from that Smitty daughter.        

 

[olsun]

After Ildeno, and before Sugar Ray, was the black chi bull Black Power Play. He sired a lot of good club calves in his day. Also getting good show heifers was the simmental bull Signal. Several good full blood simmy bulls. Achilles, Extra, Soleil, and Achilles Superstar also got some good cattle.

 

[AAOK]

Ildeno gets my vote.  Back in the mid 70's an Angus breeder I knew in Connerville, OK was breeding his cows to a fullblood Ildeno son, and selling winning steers all over the midwest.  Funny how big his fullblood Angus cows got in the next few years????

 

[dori36]

From TJ:  <<A not so well known fact is that the 1997 Grand Champion Percentage Lowline Bull at Kansas City traced back to that awesome cow & to Smitty through his Tarentaise dam that we had bred up from that Smitty daughter.  >>    

How/as what did Lowlines show at KC in 1997?  We weren't there as an "organized" breed yet, right?  Heck, we only came into the US in 1996. So are you talking about someone's AOB or ......??

 

[shortyjock89]

I believe he meant 2007. He showed the Champ % Bull at KC in 07.. he didn't even have Lowlines until 04...

 

[TJ]

I believe he meant 2007. He showed the Champ % Bull at KC in 07.. he didn't even have Lowlines until 04...

Yes, I meant 2007.   Sorry!    I think I was suffering from too much "what should I breed my to my heifers" thread. 

Anyway, here he is...

1/2 Lowline X mostly 1/2 Tarentaise with a little tiny shot of FB Chi (Smitty) & Angus.