Why won't a Judge use a 1,425 pound steer at a Major?

[DLD]

Right - sorry, I didn't make myself clear there.  I know that most actually are - I believe I said so earlier.  What I meant was who would be the first to use one whose official show weight was over 1400.  That's the difference we're talking about here.

 

[vc]

A couple of thoughts, first if a 1425 pound calf is the best I see no reason for it to not win.
Like it was stated most 1350 pound steers weigh 1425. We usually haul the calves home after the fair and wait a couple weeks, up to month before we get them killed, mostly it is a scheduling thing, but the point is they get well over 1400 closer to 1500 and they do not look near as fresh at that weight. There is always few calves over 1450 we have had one or 2 over 1600 they packed the beef on but did not look fresh, most the time they chined up some.
I had to go buy a steer at a smaller fair for my boss this year, he was one short for the freezer, they had a 1350 limit if a calf was over that you did not pay for the extra pounds. Sounds like more than the judges need to get up to date.

 

[Tallcool1]

Right - sorry, I didn't make myself clear there.  I know that most actually are - I believe I said so earlier.  What I meant was who would be the first to use one whose official show weight was over 1400.  That's the difference we're talking about here.

I understood exactly what you meant...and you and knabe are speaking the same language!

 

[Tallcool1]

I called a friend this afternoon, and brought him up to speed on our thread. This friend used to judge a LOT of prospect and progress shows in the Midwest as well as a few State Fairs.  He doesn't judge much right now because his kids are showing, but will likely start again in the next couple years.

I asked him to answer the question to the best of his ability.  Keep in mind, he did NOT see our thread. I learned a lot...

First off, he said that this is a big problem in the show ring right now. In his opinion, if the 1425 pound steer is the best one there, he would use him and not look back. He went on to tell me a story.

I was judging a very competitive county fair and had in my mind a pretty clear cut favorite picked out. He was sound, finished right, and very well fit with fresh hair...but he weighed 1400 pounds.  I studied and pondered, and scratched my head. There were probably 10 legitimate show steers there, but every time I walked them, this steer was the class of the field. I finally stopped second guessing myself and just used him, knowing that the industry would certainly support my decision, and that he was the best one there.

At the backdrop during pictures,  I told the family that my decision would have sure been easier if they had weighed him in at 1365 or so, and that he was clearly the best steer there. This family looked at me in total confusion. They knew how to feed, grow hair, clip, and fit...but had no idea that they should have shrunk that steer back. Some of these families just don't want to or don't know.

The next thing he said is movement. Even at a show with big numbers, it can be hard to find a 1425 pound steer that can move. I believe vc eluded to this in his reply.

Another point he made is ADG requirement at some shows. Some steers have to weigh in heavy to hit an ADG minimum or they get docked to a certain ribbon category. If the show has an ADG requirement (which they tell me at orientation), it makes it easier to see which steers are probably showing heavier than they would need to. If its a 2.0 ADG minimum, and a steer is in at 2.09, I know that steer could have been pulled down.

Long and short of it...if he is in fact the best one there, he should get the slap...and every fat steer show should stop weighing steers in. Just have the exhibitor turn in a weigh back card and give them a % allowance from that number. The weigh in number doesn't mean anything anyway.

 

[DLD]

At our state shows we do turn in our own weights.  I believe it does lead to less actual shrink (ie stress) on the steers, because it's just routine to weigh the steers filled where they look their best, then take off 3-5 % and turn in that weight, especially on the heavier end (say 1325 or more).

It's pretty obvious sometimes when you watch a breed champion drive and you can see maybe 3 or 4 classes where the class winners look to be the same size, despite maybe being 100# or more difference in weight on their cards.  Often you'll see a calf from a lighter class that looks noticeably bigger than the class winner above it.

I think what Tallcool1's friend may be saying is that it really doesn't matter to him what weight you write down - he's looking for the best calf, period.  I guess what it boils down to with judges like this (not criticizing at all - I like it this way) is the weight classes are just a way to split the cattle up into smaller groups - easier to evaluate, and gives more kids a chance to place in the top end of a class.  The flip side of this is the judge that uses the stoutest looking (biggest) steer in every class - not as common these days, but they're still out there (and btw, a very good example of a difference in judging styles that's nice to know before you get there    )

 

[Tallcool1]

I think one should think about maximum profit when looking at ideals.

Cost of getting to the bigger weights become very expensive with poorer conversion the longer their on feed.

I also think carcass contests are similar to live evaluations. It's strictly a numbers game with carcass evaluation and does not really tell you if it was the most profitable or even the most desireable for the majority of consumers.

We need to look at the input cost on these animals. It is naive to bolst about these good carcass numbers without knowing what the cost was to get them there.

Are you implying that the 24,000 or so steers that were on the USDA report were fed past the point of economic feasability for the purpose of "boasting" carcass numbers?

Perhaps you need to sit these feedlot owners down and set them straight! You be the one to explain to them why carcass evaluation doesn't mean anything. It does to them.

It is "naive" to underestimate the intellectual capacity, and analytical skills of the people on this board.  I asked a relatively simple question, stated my feelings, and backed up my opinion with raw and unmanipulated data.

Your points MAY be valid, but they really don't have anything to do with this thread. Well wait, maybe they do.

"And that brings us to our Heavy Weight division champion. I sure like the look of this steer today, he certainly is the thickest and heaviest muscled steer out here in our championship drive. I know the auditorium is full of folks that would love to have a feedlot full of steers just like him, and what I like the most about him...is he is indicative of what we are seeing in packing houses all over the country...plus a whole lot of eye appeal of course. (The crowd goes wild in applause). The problem with him folks, it just costs too much to feed one to that weight."