Winning at any Cost?

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AAOK

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Great article by Marty Ropp in the Feb. ASA Register.  If anyone could scan it and put up the whole article, I think it would open the eyes of many Planeteers.  I will list a few key points below.

Judge - A moderator, referee, umpire, authority, connoisseur, an assessor and one who gives a decision or opinion.

The uncontrolled desire to win at all costs, the dark and long-running tradition of misrepresentation of livestock, either genetically, physically or chronologically, the pressure to select animals withe traits that are right at the edge of ridiculous in terms of form and function and the political ugliness that permeates parts of the judging fraternity has brought the reputation and future of livestock exhibition and evaluation to the breaking point.

Paraphrased:  I truly love being part of the great tradition of livestock exhibition and judging.  I gew up idolizing the great stock producers & educators evaluating livestock, bringing years of respect and sincerity whose opinions were anticipated because they protected the integrity of the event.  Even when disappointed, the exhibitors would shake the judge's hand and thank him for sharing his/her wisdom.  You reflected on what the judge had to say, went home and worked even harder so that next time your reward would be higher.

This is a society that embraces winners.  Our mistake is giving others the higher power to decide whether we are or are not a winner.  If we don't enter the ring with a confidence as to the extent of our efforts and pride in ehat has already been acheived then we have only a slim hope of having a satisfying experience in the ring.  

Many young people miss out on the experience of working and learining  with their livestock.  No favor is done for a young person who acheives without effort.  Success without commitment or by short-cut is an unhealthly life lesson that can be hard to unlearn.

Participation in livestock shows seems to be on the decline.  Too often its because of the perception and impropriety among exhibitors in an attempt to win and or collusion between exhibitors and unscrupulous judges predetermining the day's outcomes.    

Respect, integrity and self-policing are the keys to moving forward.  Exhibitors and Judges alike must clean their own houses.  Evaluating livestock without regard to ownership, historical relationship or predjudice toward the exhibitor is only fair and honest.  The use of illegal drugs on livestock, practices such as cosmetic surgery and the injection of air under the skin of livestock has to stop.  No amount of Show Rules or witch hunts will have the effect that self-policing could render.
 

aj

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Great article. If the club calf industry uses known genetic defects which routinely kills cows and calves I almost shuuder. If the animal rights goof balls get ahold of the club calf way of doing things think of the videos that could be produced.
 

Jill

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That is a very well written article, pretty much sums it up!
While I agree with you aj, I sure don't see how you can possibly bring this article around to a genetic defect discussion. 
 

DL

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Pretty much sums up what many of us have been saying all along -
Exhibitors, too, must clean their own houses. The use of illegal drugs on livestock, inhumane practices such as cosmetic surgeries and the injection of air or other substances under the skin of livestock need to stop.

one might interpret this remark in light of genetic defects - a dead TH or PHA calf is certainly at the edge of form and function
the pressure to select animals with traits that are right at the edge of ridiculous in terms of form and function

good job Mary Ropp - about time somebody had the guts to actually say it
 

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Show Heifer

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Yep, read the article.... and have to admit, it is exactly what some of us has been saying along.... and no, it isn't "If you can't beat'em, join'em"  nor is it "It's ok, if you're doing it to win..."
It also isn't breeding animals that have no purpose except to be a freak. It definetly isn't knocking 99 in the head so you can get the 1 good one.

Hats off to Marty Ropp, ASA Director of Field Services. I just hope you keep your job!!
 

Jill

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I guess I took something different from this article, it is about integrity to me, about half of this article is directed at judging, the other half is directed at the showman, very few showman actually raise the animals they are showing.
While one sentence may indirectly relate to genetic defects, that isn't referenced in this article and that goes back to the breeders, while aj would like to place the blame on the club calf breeders the genetic defects out there all generated from purebred breeders.
 

AAOK

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Jill said:
I guess I took something different from this article, it is about integrity to me, about half of this article is directed at judging, the other half is directed at the showman, very few showman actually raise the animals they are showing.
While one sentence may indirectly relate to genetic defects, that isn't referenced in this article and that goes back to the breeders, while aj would like to place the blame on the club calf breeders the genetic defects out there all generated from purebred breeders.

Perfect, Jill.  Exactly the way I read it!
 

Freddy

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Just to throw another tait that no one worries about in this business , is the semen an small testicle development , if people quit chasing these buLLS  that only have  50% or less chance of making a cow pregnant would weed out those undisirable bulls, I have some myself that is questionable , but to get rid of it I took it to my ET center an it will all be used there so that it can be confirmed to have a chance of working ...some of this is the bull an some is mans doing , incorrect freezing of the semen sure won't help..
 

blackcows

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Jill said:
very few showman actually raise the animals they are showing.

In my opinion this is a major downfall of the show cattle industry.  When I grew up showing the majority of the kids I showed with were farm families, I can't even begin to imagine what would happen if we would air a calf or do many of the things people are doing today.  Our parents would not be happy because the animals we showed were the same animals that would go back into production, they were our income.  At our county fair there are very few farm families left.  A lot of people that are showing cattle today have little to no knowledge of true production agriculture.  It seems to be going the way of the horse business, we have halter cattle and production cattle, the production cattle may never win a show but they will pay a lot of bills and the halter cattle may win a lot of shows but try to make a living with 100 just like them and you will be in trouble.  I think the recent thread where some people couldn't believe that market heifers had to be open at the NWSS was very telling.  I was also suprised to learn they had to be open becuase I was amazed there was a time they could be bred.  Anyone with a true understanding of production agriculture would understand pregnant market heifers are not good...if they were we'd see a lot more bulls running in feedyard pens.  In my opinion the genetic defects issue doesn't concern a lot of people for the same reason. If you are running 1,000 cows in the Sandhills of NE and your goal is to make a living 10% loss to genetic defects is a big deal.  On the other hand if you have 10 cows and you goal is to raise the next great one than losing 10% or 1 calf every year to a genetic defect is just part of the game.

Mike
 

CAB

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aj said:
Great article. If the club calf industry uses known genetic defects which routinely kills cows and calves I almost shuuder. If the animal rights goof balls get ahold of the club calf way of doing things think of the videos that could be produced.

I take offence to being perceived as a person that would breed carriers to carriers b/c I like to raise cattle for the "club calf industry". How many PPL do you know personally that will mate carriers to carriers knowing that 1/4th of the calves will be positive and ultimately be dead or die? I personally know for sure of only 2 that are currently breeding some this way. In my opinion  that is 2 too many, but it is only 2. I could not knowingly breed this way. I could not afford it economically nor could I stomach the dead calves & suffering for the cows. I think that to throw all of the PPL into the same bag and say here you are is ridiculous. PPL that breed calves to compete in the showrings across this country are every bit as good of cattle PPL as the  PB breeders, commercial breeders, & hobby cattle breeders as the next person. 99.9% of these club calf breeders are part of the salt of this country and I respect their work and commitment to breeding the kind of cattle that obviously are in demand. I don't believe in in sort of cheating in whatever form it may take. The truth and fact of the matter is, and this is very simple, until a clean bull is found that can beat the defect carriers consistently, defect carrier bulls are going to be used, and thanks to the development of the tests this can be done safely, period. JMO, Brent
 

knabe

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what percent of producers are in business to make money? (a profit, not a tax loss)

what percent of cowherd are in business to make money?  (a profit, not a tax loss)

the above is not a smart ass question.  it is a real question.

currently, i am not in business to make money, but am transitioning, and learning.
 

Hilltop

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It would be very interesting to get everyone's honest reply to your question Knabe!! To me winning is having the cattle look the best they can and people coming along and telling you that. The ribbons are a bonus. We were out of the showring for almost 10 years but now that my daughter and wife have got the bug big time also we are doing it again. The things that some people do to cattle makes me shiver. I want my daughter to grow up winning by hard work , detrermination, and doing all we can honestly. Our family's goal is to make money at the cattle and to one day and hopefully within the next 25 years or sooner not to have to work off the farm, but now work is also paying for all the extras that we have, but the  paycheck is not to buy our way to the top.
 

MotoMojo09

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Haha for some reason it made me laugh reading the "air injection"  because last year i had a calf that bloated so bad I had to stick a knife in him. 
And after that the air seeped out under his skin.  He looked sooo huge!! His skin was all poofy!!
Its was kinda funny but very sad because he was in alot of pain :( 
who'd uh thought, but after all that the steer won grand for me that year!!  :D
Great article BTW  I hate cheaters  :mad:
 

irh

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Win if  you can, lose if you must. but always chet.  (But always air them up back at the trailers and under the tents with the flaps closed!)
 

CAB

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We try to make money with the cows, but the truth of the matter is that if I didn't have a pretty good job that we would have to sell the cows. I was @ a sale yesterday and ran into 2 old neighbors that both have commercial cow/calf herds. The one told me that their 323 hd cow herd came in @ a $47K loss last year and the other one told me that they were thinking of selling the cows and renting out the pasture and selling hay. He thought that they would be better off.
 
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