Winning at any Cost?

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justintime

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May 26, 2007
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Saskatchewan Canada
It is much the same here in Canada, if not even worse. Most cattlemen are struggling and it has been almost 10 years since cattle markets were even close to good. I make most of my living from my cows, and if it wasn't for having pretty decent purebred sales and having my loans mostly paid off, this business would be way beyond stupid.  I mentioned here on SP a few weeks ago about going through some old farm receipts and finding some cattle market receipts. In that same year I purchased a new 3/4 4X4 truck and a new 20' stock trailer for a total of $8000. This got me to wondering what those cattle prices would have to be today to have kept up with inflation. I googled, "Inflation calculator" and found several to chose from. I picked one, put my average prices and the year into the calculator, and it said that I should be receiving $4.03/ lb today to have the same buying power for my calves. I sold a heifer a few years after this, in my production sale for $5000. I punched these numbers into the the Inflation calculator, and it told me that I would need to receive $10,208 to have the same " buying power" dollars today. After getting these results, a heifer selling for $3000 in an auction sale, doesn't seem to get quite as good to me, as it used to be.

I spoke with a young couple recently, who have worked their butts off developing and designing the cow herd they wanted to have. They were finally up to 160 cows, where they wanted to be, and both are working off the farm to try to make ends meet. They have 3 small children as well, so I don't have to tell anyone that they are working in the dark, at both ends of the day. They had just sold their calves when I talked with them, and they were totally emotionally drained. It was quite depressing and they were asking me what they should do? They said they had finally got the cow numbers they wanted, and the cows were all below 6 years of age and were the genetic combinations they wanted to have, and they were all bred to calve when they wanted them to arrive.  They told me that they had been hanging on for three years now, trying to keep everything together so they could enjoy the " good times" when they finally arrived. They asked me if they should just sell the cows and give up on their dream. I really did not know what to tell them. I still don't. I told them that was a decision that only they could make. I told them that the first thing they had to do was sit down and decide just how badly they wanted this dream and how many other things they were willing to sacrifice to reach this goal. I also told them that someone had once told me that there was actually " life after cows" ( I can hardly believe I said that!) and they also had to think about their young family. They went home and thought about this for a few days and decided that they would sell 1/2 the cows and try to maintain most of their best heifers each year, so that they could have a good herd base if and when cattle markets did return to the so called " good times". I know there are many, many others out there who are experiencing the same thing.

I am not sure what the answer is, but part of it has to be consumer education. North American consumers are very spoiled when it comes to what they have to pay for food. In many respects, most European countries understand the importance of food and are quite willing to spend a bigger portion of their income in purchasing it. Maybe North America needs to experience a famine or a major war, to understand how important a good food supply is. When I was in Scotland, at the Royal Highland Show, I never heard one person complain about a cheeseburger costing 8 pounds ( $16 in our money) and the line ups for food were longer than you would ever see here.

I am afraid that I may be one of the last of an era who have raised cattle strictly as a business. I guess it is also my hobby, as I don't do much else. The only times in my life that I ever worked for someone else was working at someone's cattle sales, and teaching some beef short courses my first winter out of college. Almost every year since I started in this business, my accountant has asked me " why I do what I do?" Some days I also wonder as well, especially when I think that most of my college friends have been retired for a few years now, but I really don't think any of them are happier than I am. I think I sleep as sound at night as any of them as well.

I do not like to dwell on the negative things in this business, but I do think these are issues we need to discuss and we need to start finding solutions too. These are not easy questions, and the answers are not easy as well. I am afraid this journey is a very long one, and one of the biggest helps would be our governments waking up and starting to view a strong agriculture sector as one of the foundations on which our societies are built, rather than just a dwindling voter base.
 

Torch

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Oct 24, 2008
Messages
257
A cheap food policy is more important than a strong AG sector. Get government out of farming and ranching and one could make more. Just look at how many times the USDA said that China would have a record corn harvest. All the time the price went down here in the USA. Well our farmer could get to theirs in a timely fashion and China fell way short of the USDA estimate. Price still lousy here. Did our own government lie to us? Say it ain't so.
JMHO
 

aj

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Jul 5, 2006
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6,422
Location
western kansas
The interesting thing is that the cow guy carries all the overhead expense. He owns the land equipment and what not. The packers are so efficient. I doubt that they can integrate like the hog deal cause they don't want to own the land and whatnot. Looks like there would be some locker beef potential for us dumbass cowcalf guys to look into. But the little locker plants are less efficient and still have to jump through regulation hoops. I did a "business plan" on a little locker plant and its a tough bussiness.
 

Cowfarmer65

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Jul 14, 2007
Messages
201
Location
3060 South McNaughton Rd. Douglas, ON. Can.
Good post JIT. I too am in the category of the young couple you speak of. I am a hobby Shorthorn breeder. If it were not for my wife and I having our off farm jobs, we wouldn't be farming.
Twenty one years ago I approached my father wanting to buy the farm I am now on. His response to me was " Son I could give you these places and I still wouldn't be doing you any favour".  My father died suddenly 2 months after saying this and I did end up with the farms. I have said it many times and to many people. He was more right than I think he actually thought he was.
That being said. I do beleive there will be a change in the future. We will be paid appropriately for our product. The question is, will I live to see it?
As to the original topic of this thread. Winning dishonestly can come at a terrible cost.Honour.
 

box6rranch

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Dec 11, 2008
Messages
604
Location
Larkspur, CO
I've read the article and everyone's posts. Just recovering from NWSS and thinking about the steers I saw there. We were in for the prospect show but we were able to keep our stall up from the shorthorn show so we were right in the thick of the market steers stalls. I was in awe of how spectacular the majority of the steers were. After the market steer competition there was a young competitor stalled close by us who literally threw a fit because she didn't win. Instead of her mom shaking her silly and bringing her back to reality she commiserated with her and continued to say, yes you should have won and let her daughter make a spectacle of herself throwing things around. I was embarrassed for both of them.
Now the prospect steers................we've been showing cows for 9 years now, I'm sorry but I have never ever seen natural "enhanced" calves with butts the size of these prospects!!!! But I guess as long as judges keep putting these cows as winners and at the top of their classes there is no reason for anyone who unethically enhances their cattle to stop doing it.
 

COd

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Jan 6, 2008
Messages
130
I think they need to start making the carcasses a little more important in these shows.  Say the champion steer in Denver this year gets to slaughter and has a poor carcass, give the kid the price of a poor carcass, ban them from the show the next year and donate the rest of the money they got in the sale to a scolarship fund.  I have been through many years of shows, through my years of showing and my kids showing, and I have seen maybe one or two of the top showring animals have a high placing carcass.  Is this not what we are producing beef for?  To supply a good quality product for the consumer.  How many negative things get out in the press that hurts the beef industry?  IMO The top animal in the show should also be one of the top animals in the carcass.  JMO
 

shortyjock89

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Mar 6, 2007
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4,465
Location
IL
Let's just slick em all off and put em in a feed lot and harvest them instead of show.  ::)
 

Show Heifer

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Jan 28, 2007
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Oh my COd, do realize what your implying???? Show animals are the same as carcass animals?   Do we have to hash these over again!!??   ::)

(But, I do agree with you COd, I also think the best show steer should have the carcass.... wouldn't it be nice?)
 

frostback

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Feb 7, 2007
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Colorado
COd said:
I think they need to start making the carcasses a little more important in these shows.  Say the champion steer in Denver this year gets to slaughter and has a poor carcass, give the kid the price of a poor carcass, ban them from the show the next year and donate the rest of the money they got in the sale to a scolarship fund.  I have been through many years of shows, through my years of showing and my kids showing, and I have seen maybe one or two of the top showring animals have a high placing carcass.  Is this not what we are producing beef for?  To supply a good quality product for the consumer.  How many negative things get out in the press that hurts the beef industry?  IMO The top animal in the show should also be one of the top animals in the carcass.  JMO

I raise beef for the love of it, but I show to raise good kids.
 

chambero

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Feb 12, 2007
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3,207
Location
Texas
Show Heifer said:
(But, I do agree with you COd, I also think the best show steer should have the carcass.... wouldn't it be nice?)

They usually do at our Texas shows.  I've posted the Houston carcass results often enough on here.
 

loveRedcows

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Joined
Nov 23, 2007
Messages
202
I raise beef for the love of it, but I show to raise good kids.
[/quote]

I love that!  Our family has learned how to graciously stand at the end of the line in too many shows because the kids have been taught to play by the rules no matter what anyone else does.  Surprisingly, our herd does support itself -- we don't raise show cattle but we do take what we raise to shows anyway for the experiences of just being there.

The show ring WILL NOT change until the judges grow a set and look past the fluff & stuff.
 

Torch

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Oct 24, 2008
Messages
257
chambero said:
Show Heifer said:
(But, I do agree with you COd, I also think the best show steer should have the carcass.... wouldn't it be nice?)

They usually do at our Texas shows.  I've posted the Houston carcass results often enough on here.
But is it the best of the worst or mediocre?

At some point judges (and exhibiters) need to appreciate the work that goes under the hide as they do the outside.

IJS
 

chambero

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Feb 12, 2007
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Texas
Torch said:
chambero said:
Show Heifer said:
(But, I do agree with you COd, I also think the best show steer should have the carcass.... wouldn't it be nice?)

They usually do at our Texas shows.  I've posted the Houston carcass results often enough on here.
But is it the best of the worst or mediocre?

At some point judges (and exhibiters) need to appreciate the work that goes under the hide as they do the outside.

IJS

All real data (not opinions) that I've ever seen - from county show carcass contest results to major steer shows - proves that it is a bad misconception that show steers don't produce excellent carcasses also.  I don't have time to dig up the link, but if you go to the Houston Livestock Show and Rodeo website you can find steer carcass contest results (from every 1st and 2nd place steer in every breed) going back several years.  As a group, they are carcasses that feedlots would love to turn out consistently.  Find me hard group data from a show that proves otherwise.  I don't think it exists.  Do some of these steers gain as fast as feedlots would like - probably not - but I honestly doubt that is even true if you really push them.  The show steers we feed gain just fine.
 

jbw

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Jan 12, 2009
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But.....How old are the steers when they are harvested?  A GOOD feedlot steer should be dead at 13-14 months of age, hanging a choice carcass. So many times the steers are harvested at 20 plus months of age, and still don't hang a choice carcass!
 

chambero

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You're asking two different questions.  Show steers aren't fed like feedlot calves.  But the fact is most of them do hang choice carcasses - most as being a higher percentage than what grades out in good feedlots.

And most GOOD feedlot calves aren't dead at 13-14 months of age.  At least in our region where most herds are fall calving, most larger ranches that sell directly to feedlot buyers (no sale barns involved) keep their calves on the cows till very late spring-early summer, wean 600-700 lb calves off of nothing but momma's milk and native or coastal pastures, and those calves go into a feedlot where they aren't killed till late the following winter, typically weighing in the 1300s at about 18 months of age.
 

RAShower

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Aug 12, 2007
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OK
Let alone what they taste like. What does the "Super Fuzzball" and "Slick Joint 50" do to the taste?
 

jbw

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Jan 12, 2009
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Up here they are killed at appx. 14 month/1300#s, spring calves, Fall calves don't work in our neck of the woods, what I was implying was the calves should grade with the extra pampered life and show feed AND the age, loads go out gradeing  'bout 90% choice.
 

chambero

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Here's the link I was referring to.  They are very representative of what comes out of high end feedlots.  Even more so if you consider that 1/3 of these calves are from lightweight classes that in the real world wouldn't be killed until they were a couple of hundred pounds heavier.  Those tend to be the majority of the Selects.

http://meat.tamu.edu/HLSR/2009%20HLSR/2009%20HLSR%20Steers.htm

As far as "taste", have you not ever eaten one of your own show steers that you've fed out?  Heat Wave's taste great! ;D
 

Show Heifer

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Jan 28, 2007
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loveRedcows quote: The show ring WILL NOT change until the judges grow a set and look past the fluff & stuff.

THAT is the best quote of this thread!!!
 

Jill

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Jan 20, 2007
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Gardner, KS
chambero said:
Here's the link I was referring to.  They are very representative of what comes out of high end feedlots.  Even more so if you consider that 1/3 of these calves are from lightweight classes that in the real world wouldn't be killed until they were a couple of hundred pounds heavier.  Those tend to be the majority of the Selects.

http://meat.tamu.edu/HLSR/2009%20HLSR/2009%20HLSR%20Steers.htm

As far as "taste", have you not ever eaten one of your own show steers that you've fed out?  Heat Wave's taste great! ;D

We are eating a Heat Wave right now that we bought back at our county fair premium auction rather than let him go to butcher and I can guarantee you you can't tell whether he has hair or not in the freezer they just taste like correctly finished corn fed beef!
 
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