Zilmax and Optaflexx Photos

[Tallcool1]

I don't know that it's fishing so much as "trolling."  Don't feed it - zilmax or the troll.

Ditto!!

I'm not a troll. The sole purpose of me registering on this site was for me to visually see how implants and/or beta-agonists effect muscle and/or male secondary sex characteristics and maybe see if it can do the same to horses (I'm sure I'm not the only one to have thought of implanting a horse or feeding it optaflexx).

Just for the fun of it, I did a quick google search for the term "beta agonist in horses".  There wasn't a lot there, but there was one very interesting article which details a study that was done a few years back. 

file:///C:/Users/Clint/Downloads/IND44052805.pdf

I would say nope to giving that a try.

 

[UnbridledStallion]

I don't know that it's fishing so much as "trolling."  Don't feed it - zilmax or the troll.

Ditto!!

I'm not a troll. The sole purpose of me registering on this site was for me to visually see how implants and/or beta-agonists effect muscle and/or male secondary sex characteristics and maybe see if it can do the same to horses (I'm sure I'm not the only one to have thought of implanting a horse or feeding it optaflexx).

Just for the fun of it, I did a quick google search for the term "beta agonist in horses".  There wasn't a lot there, but there was one very interesting article which details a study that was done a few years back. 

file:///C:/Users/Clint/Downloads/IND44052805.pdf

I would say nope to giving that a try.

I know of two "studies". One was really a Master's Thesis where they fed paylean to horses:
repository.tamu.edu/handle/1969.1/ETD-TAMU-2008-05-3
(click view pdf to see the full 87 page paper)
And like someone mentioned here, judging from the results (the rac feed horses did gain muscle), I would probably not be two shocked if I saw a before and after picture (maybe a small difference).
There was a real study (peer reviewed) where they were going to feed horses zilmax, but some horses experienced allergic reactions so they stopped the trial.
For me I would just want to increase the physical appearance of the horse (soggy nice muscles and a cresty neck), I wouldn't plan to compete in horse shows or use it on horses that I intended to sell.

 

[cowboylaw]

Re: FDA and Zilmax, here an article.
"(Reuters) - The U.S. Food and Drug Administration said on Friday it was working with drugmaker Merck & Co and the U.S. Department of Agriculture to gather information on the cattle feed additive Zilmax and determine if it is unsafe.

The FDA, in an email response to a Reuters query, said it had received "a very small number of reports of lameness or lying down" in cattle whose feed contained zilpaterol, also known as Zilmax.

The agency said it would review any new information about the additive and would notify Merck and the public if it determined the product posed safety concerns.

The USDA had no comment and referred questions to the FDA, which does not typically reveal its investigations.

Merck said on Friday it was temporarily suspending sales of Zilmax in the United States and Canada, following concerns about the drug, which is given to cattle to increase their weight before slaughter."

Now, read between the lines.  You are right, Merck did pull it themselves.....before the FDA recalled it.  Semantics really.  :-\ 

 

[aj]

For all the nutcakes feeding all the additives to show cattle......a question. How is all this stuff comparable to athelete's taking testostrone and all those growth hormones? Would this stuff help show cattle. I watched the show about the New york Yankee and they figured out how to dope with out getting caught. How far will people go to manufacture a steer besides the airing or whatever?

 

[Tallcool1]

For all the nutcakes feeding all the additives to show cattle......a question. How is all this stuff comparable to athelete's taking testostrone and all those growth hormones? Would this stuff help show cattle. I watched the show about the New york Yankee and they figured out how to dope with out getting caught. How far will people go to manufacture a steer besides the airing or whatever?

While I don't necessarily always follow or agree with you aj......this time I'm picking up what you're puttin down!

I too watched the interview with the supplier of all of the Alex Rodriguez PED's.  The whole time I was watching, I was thinking about this in the back of my mind.

I think that what A-Rod was using would be a pretty close parallel (theoretically, not necessarily in composition) to Implants that are used every day in feedlots across the country.  The livestock industry has determined that a growth implant is an approved substance.  Major League Baseball has not.   

The majority of supplements that cattle are being fed are more along the lines of a Protein Supplement or Creatine Powder.  They aren't technically banned substances.  Many people would even argue that they are a waste of money. 

How far will someone go?  I think it would scare the hell out of us if we really knew.  I know how far we will go, and sometimes I sit back and think...is it too far?  But AJ, how far will people go in ANY industry.  I am in the retail automobile industry, and not a day goes by that I don't shake my head in total disbelief.  I absolutely can't believe what some car dealers will do to a customer.  What about youth athletics?  My 14 year old twin boys lift weights year around, play basketball in the middle of the summer (it's "optional"), try to play baseball (which they love) between all of the "optional" summer camps, and grow winter hair on their show steers in the middle of the summer.

Unfortunately (and fortunately in many ways), we are living in a time of "excess".  We are living in a time in which conscience is not necessarily the driving force behind all of our decisions.  If it doesn't say we can't, then I guess we can.

I don't have the answers, but I will say that you make good points.

Good addition to this thread.

Thank You.

 

[vc]

AJ, how does feeding a product , developed for the commercial market, used by the commercial market, approved for the use in the commercial market, turn one into a nutcake?
The difference in feeding a calf to eat and show to one, is simple, the one I'm going to eat, I want ready as soon as possible, the one I'm showing needs to hit 12:00 on this a certain date. To get him there you have to manage him all the way through. Those who can manage them seem to win, never added much more than STB, Calf-Manna, and Melatonin, to the feed, I guess that makes me a nut cake.
Pretty sure that athletes, who do not use steroids still have a special diet, and take supplements to reach their maximum potential. A sprinter in the Olympics wants to hit his peak at the time he puts his feet in the blocks for the medal, not a month earlier or 2 days later.

 

[UnbridledStallion]

Sorry to everyone if I didn't make my first post clear.

Yes it was the manufacturer that pulled it off the market voluntarily.

I don't know that it's fishing so much as "trolling."  Don't feed it - zilmax or the troll.

Ditto!!

I'm not a troll. The sole purpose of me registering on this site was for me to visually see how implants and/or beta-agonists effect muscle and/or male secondary sex characteristics and maybe see if it can do the same to horses (I'm sure I'm not the only one to have thought of implanting a horse or feeding it optaflexx).

Do NOT FEED ZILMAX OR OPTIFLEX TO HORSES!!!!!

There are other ways to increase muscle in horses which I won't discuss here.

Hey MCC I sent you a PM. Was the other way to increase muscle, growth hormone? Don't know why you said you wouldn't discuss it here, yet didn't reply to my PM.

 

[vc]

Was not me nor did I receive a PM, sorry.

 

[UnbridledStallion]

Was not me nor did I receive a PM, sorry.

Sorry it was MCC, not VC.

 

[UnbridledStallion]

So is anyone going to post pictures of muscular livestock (horses, cows, pigs,turkeys, sheep, goats)? I especially want pictures of cattle given strong implants and plenty of optaflexx.

 

[Mainevent]

No one is going to we have told you. Look them up on google.

 

[DakotaCow]

So is anyone going to post pictures of muscular livestock (horses, cows, pigs,turkeys, sheep, goats)? I especially want pictures of cattle given strong implants and plenty of optaflexx.

Buy some salebarn cows, they are going cheap nowadays I hear...feed em all the crap you want and pull out your camera and snap a few. Then leave us alone.

 

[Tallcool1]

Ok, this is a shocking photo of how Optiflexx can astonishingly enhance a show steer. 

This steer was fed a full dose of Optiflexx for exactly 30 days.  Some of the folks on this thread might say that the product was administered per the manufacturers directions.  Others might say that it could have been fed for another 10 days. 

Like you have been told repeatedly...there's really nothing to see.

 

[UnbridledStallion]

Ok, this is a shocking photo of how Optiflexx can astonishingly enhance a show steer. 

This steer was fed a full dose of Optiflexx for exactly 30 days.  Some of the folks on this thread might say that the product was administered per the manufacturers directions.  Others might say that it could have been fed for another 10 days. 

Like you have been told repeatedly...there's really nothing to see.

Thank you, your halfway there. Thanks for having the guts to post the picture.
Now just show me one where the steer is a similar age and breed, and did not receive Optiflexx.
Also someone on this or another forum said that if you use implants and zilmax to steer will feed hard to the touch. Is this true that the steer will feel "rugged" to the touch? Is this the case with optaflexx? I still find it absolutely thrilling that one can increase muscle mass on an animal by just using micrograms of a drug. Some in this topic said that you can see a slight difference between optaflexx and regular cattle but , can you be specific? Though they don't sell the product anymore there are still images on the show***maxx cattle website:
http://showmaxx***cattle.com/champions.html
just remove the ***

 

[JLH007]

It is indeed very difficult to visibly distinguish between a calf that has received a beta agonist and one that has not, particularly when referring to Optaflexx.  In my experience as a nutrition consultant, any visible change in calves fed Zilmax was typically easier to distinguish than calves fed Optaflexx.  Since Zilmax was voluntarily removed from the market, a higher number of operations are certainly using Optaflexx now. However, more of our clients both here and in Japan are now using one of our new all-natural products, MATRIX, which avoids any potential stigma that might be associated with the beta agonists yet based on a recent study at an Iowa feedyard, appears to provide similar results as Optaflexx except at a lower cost and it actually enhances quality grade as well instead of reducing it as with use of the beta agonists. The MATRIX product is based on a combination of very potent all natural vasodilators that we've researched over the past 30 years, stemming back to my doctoral work at A&M, which increase blood flow and thereby increase the concentration of essential nutrients needed at the tissue level. MATRIX is available in several forms and I would be glad to forward data from the Iowa study if anyone is interested.
Dr. Jimmy Horner

 

[Tallcool1]

It is indeed very difficult to visibly distinguish between a calf that has received a beta agonist and one that has not, particularly when referring to Optaflexx.  In my experience as a nutrition consultant, any visible change in calves fed Zilmax was typically easier to distinguish than calves fed Optaflexx.  Since Zilmax was voluntarily removed from the market, a higher number of operations are certainly using Optaflexx now. However, more of our clients both here and in Japan are now using one of our new all-natural products, MATRIX, which avoids any potential stigma that might be associated with the beta agonists yet based on a recent study at an Iowa feedyard, appears to provide similar results as Optaflexx except at a lower cost and it actually enhances quality grade as well instead of reducing it as with use of the beta agonists. The MATRIX product is based on a combination of very potent all natural vasodilators that we've researched over the past 30 years, stemming back to my doctoral work at A&M, which increase blood flow and thereby increase the concentration of essential nutrients needed at the tissue level. MATRIX is available in several forms and I would be glad to forward data from the Iowa study if anyone is interested.
Dr. Jimmy Horner

Thank you for the update, and the professional perspective.

Could you take a second and explain the relationship between Zilmax, Optaflexx, and Clenbuterol?  I know that they are "cousins" for lack of a better term.  I know that Clenbuterol is used for respiratory therapy in horses.  What I don't understand is why it was given to show steers 25 years ago, or why people went to jail over it.

I may be weird, but this stuff is really interesting to me. 

 

[UnbridledStallion]

It is indeed very difficult to visibly distinguish between a calf that has received a beta agonist and one that has not, particularly when referring to Optaflexx.  In my experience as a nutrition consultant, any visible change in calves fed Zilmax was typically easier to distinguish than calves fed Optaflexx.  Since Zilmax was voluntarily removed from the market, a higher number of operations are certainly using Optaflexx now. However, more of our clients both here and in Japan are now using one of our new all-natural products, MATRIX, which avoids any potential stigma that might be associated with the beta agonists yet based on a recent study at an Iowa feedyard, appears to provide similar results as Optaflexx except at a lower cost and it actually enhances quality grade as well instead of reducing it as with use of the beta agonists. The MATRIX product is based on a combination of very potent all natural vasodilators that we've researched over the past 30 years, stemming back to my doctoral work at A&M, which increase blood flow and thereby increase the concentration of essential nutrients needed at the tissue level. MATRIX is available in several forms and I would be glad to forward data from the Iowa study if anyone is interested.
Dr. Jimmy Horner

Thank you for the update, and the professional perspective.

Could you take a second and explain the relationship between Zilmax, Optaflexx, and Clenbuterol?  I know that they are "cousins" for lack of a better term.  I know that Clenbuterol is used for respiratory therapy in horses.  What I don't understand is why it was given to show steers 25 years ago, or why people went to jail over it.

I may be weird, but this stuff is really interesting to me.

JLH please explain these visual differences in zilmax (it is why I created this topic, for pictures and descriptions).
I'll answer your question, Tallcool1 and then you can respond to my last PM I sent you. Clenbuterol takes a much longer time to breakdown then zilmax and optaflexx, thus much much more of it will be in the cattles body when it is slaughtered. I also think clenbuterol reduces fat more then it creates muscle (so total carcass weight would decrease unlike zilmax/optiaflexx)

 

[Tallcool1]

It is indeed very difficult to visibly distinguish between a calf that has received a beta agonist and one that has not, particularly when referring to Optaflexx.  In my experience as a nutrition consultant, any visible change in calves fed Zilmax was typically easier to distinguish than calves fed Optaflexx.  Since Zilmax was voluntarily removed from the market, a higher number of operations are certainly using Optaflexx now. However, more of our clients both here and in Japan are now using one of our new all-natural products, MATRIX, which avoids any potential stigma that might be associated with the beta agonists yet based on a recent study at an Iowa feedyard, appears to provide similar results as Optaflexx except at a lower cost and it actually enhances quality grade as well instead of reducing it as with use of the beta agonists. The MATRIX product is based on a combination of very potent all natural vasodilators that we've researched over the past 30 years, stemming back to my doctoral work at A&M, which increase blood flow and thereby increase the concentration of essential nutrients needed at the tissue level. MATRIX is available in several forms and I would be glad to forward data from the Iowa study if anyone is interested.
Dr. Jimmy Horner

Thank you for the update, and the professional perspective.

Could you take a second and explain the relationship between Zilmax, Optaflexx, and Clenbuterol?  I know that they are "cousins" for lack of a better term.  I know that Clenbuterol is used for respiratory therapy in horses.  What I don't understand is why it was given to show steers 25 years ago, or why people went to jail over it.

I may be weird, but this stuff is really interesting to me.

JLH please explain these visual differences in zilmax (it is why I created this topic, for pictures and descriptions).
I'll answer your question, Tallcool1 and then you can respond to my last PM I sent you. Clenbuterol takes a much longer time to breakdown then zilmax and optaflexx, thus much much more of it will be in the cattles body when it is slaughtered. I also think clenbuterol reduces fat more then it creates muscle (so total carcass weight would decrease unlike zilmax/optiaflexx)

You didn't answer my question, nor did I ask you to.

I am done answering your PM's.  I don't have what you are looking for, and I do not approve of your thought process regarding any of this.  If you want to jack up a horse on Zilmax, then do it.  I really don't care what you do with your horses.  I don't own a feedlot or any type of commercial operation, so I don't have the slightest idea what an improper dosage of an implant will do to an animal.  I can't give you any "hypothetical" answers to any "hypothetical" questions. 

 

[UnbridledStallion]

All 3 are beta-agonists:
Ractopamine (which is the only ingredient in Optaflexx (cattle) Paylean(pigs) Topmax (Turkeys))
Zilpaterol (which is the only ingredient aside from stuff added to help it from forming dust and blowing in one's eye, in Zilmax)
Clenbuterol (as it self)

Some have different proportions of beta1 and beta2 receptors, and different species of animals respond differently to beta1 and beta2.

I would love to see what these would do to "exotics" such as Tigers, Wolves, Bears, Kudu (Imagine a huge hulking Timber Wolf).

 

[JLH007]

Tallcool, you are correct in that all 3 of these compounds are classified as non-steroidal stimulants and beta-2 agonists. Unbridled Stallion is also right in that Clenbuterol has a longer half life in the body than the other two.  Optaflexx actually has the shortest half life at approx. 4 hours and Zilmax is in between. Clenbuterol is only approved for respiratory therapy in horses since it is a bronchodilator.  I don't believe it is approved for any other uses in livestock in the U.S.  I'm also fairly certain that in the past Clenbuterol has been associated with significant damage to heart tissue.  It was likely given to show steers years ago for the same reason many desire to use Zilmax and Optaflexx in that all of them increase lean muscle tissue at the expense of fat cells. I'm a big proponent of integrity in the show ring and in life, and if folks use an illegal or banned substance to artificially improve the appearance of an animal then they need to be willing to face whatever consequences come their way. None of these products should be used in young, growing animals which are still depositing accelerated amounts of protein/muscle.  Even many of the feedyards I know that used Zilmax or currently use Optaflexx still base use of the beta agonist on body condition of the calf in that a thin or calf lacking cover will not receive the product.

Unbridled Stallion, all I can tell you is that Zilmax had a more obvious effect on both live animals and carcasses in enhancing musculature.  It's also known as a more aggressive re-partitioning agent than Optaflexx anyways, so this is not surprising.  In industry circles, it is also common knowledge that it was very easy to "screw" a calf up as well if he was not a good candidate for Zilmax to start with.