I have a few ideas at least on the white one-but they are newer low bw deals other than Lazy D HL Quane or GB Daybreak Express.The best son of Deertrail Awsome and arguably one of the best commercially oriented Shorthorn bulls who is still in use 24 years after he appeared is Byland Dazzler. He was stout, big footed-VERY LEVEL HIPPED,and is also the sire and grandsire of 2 National Champs-K-Kim Dazzler, and TM Dazzler:along with a number of famous cows. The Awesome son with by far the most calves born anywhere would have been Byland Explosian-who was exported to Australia as a calf-His dam is the MATERNAL grandam of the white hiefer:who I bought in 1991. Daybreak Express is BY FAR-the best Byland Dazzler son JMO-with lincoln red,maine, and Quane in the background, hes got some size,hes thick,a documented low bw with epds,and would just work with that cow family.And-they are also deep-ribbed-Zulu does put some daylight under some of them,along with a great look and muscle pattern. O0