DLD
Well-known member
chambero said:
That's for darned sure.
2 strains of TH
- Thread starter BAILEYFARMS
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That's for darned sure.
knabe
Well-known member
aj said:
what if a defect shows up 20 years later, and it's part of a multi-gene defect, and the bull has say 2 out of 4 genes to have the defect? what are the procedures for getting one's money back.
it would seem a great way to make money would be to enter a lot of those contracts if you could find a seller willing to enter it. to me, that's the ultimate bailout, and the opposite of what you are advocating AJ.
not picking a fight, but following your logic to a conclusion doesn't make sense.
the only guarantee life has is death. (not taxes anymore)
aj
Well-known member
I guess my point is that its such a buyers beware market out there. I haven't bought a bull for ten years cause I never knew what I was going to get. I had to raise my own. Why oh why don't cattle in the Shorthorn sale catalogs list bwt's. Just once I'd like to see a shorthorn sale catalog list bwts. I think we know why they don't. Why won't someone stand up at a club calf calf sale and say....I gaurenty the disposition of my calves...I will refund money. Why at bull sales is it that pedigrees are free by pedigree but we didn't test. At least say that We gaurentee the bull to free of defects such and such. Then they don't have excuse of the wrong animal was tested or Lucy Janes uncles nephew said he tested the bull or the genetist's goofed it up. Without a written gaurentee the seller has more outs than Bill Clinton at a hooters convention. What the hell is the standard ASA sellers giude deal. Its a joke. They had to put something on paper but the breeder has a free rein to work people over. Its not that hard to have a breeder of a bull stand up and gauerenttee the bull. And not fall back on the Lucys Janes onery nephew did it we can't help you on this one. The club calf deal is a good family experience. But this stuff has gotten out of hand.jmo
DLD
Well-known member
aj said:
I can understand why you're disenchanted with things, but please remember that "club calf people" are just like any other group of people. If you take a cross section of any group of people, say those in your community, your school, your church, your workplace, wherever... you're going to find people you could trust with your family, your wallet, your checkbook, your new truck, and the keys to your safe deposit box. And there will be some you couldn't trust to hold a penny for you. It's not a good thing, but it's just how it is.
I can't disagree with you that it's become a buyer beware market, but if you'll look around, there are still plenty of folks that will (and do) do the right thing.
knabe
Well-known member
aj said:
put the above on your website. if something similar is, i couldn't find it quickly as a major selling point.
No legitimate rancher can ever guarantee everything about an animal they sell. If you did, you couldn't ever spend any money you earn because someone might not like something after they get it home and want their money back.
Guaranteeing disposition of an animal just isn't possible as a blanket rule. So much depends on how that animal is treated when it gets home. I guarantee you I could make any calf mean if I wanted to. Seen more than a few people that just don't have a "way" with animals and that animals just don't like. Refunding an animal for disposition is very much a judgement call on the seller. NOBODY guarantees animal disposition - in any commercial sale either.
Guaranteeing disposition of an animal just isn't possible as a blanket rule. So much depends on how that animal is treated when it gets home. I guarantee you I could make any calf mean if I wanted to. Seen more than a few people that just don't have a "way" with animals and that animals just don't like. Refunding an animal for disposition is very much a judgement call on the seller. NOBODY guarantees animal disposition - in any commercial sale either.
I know the breeder of Jazzman personally and I don't think for a second that he tried to pull anything over on anybody with this bull. He still owns a piece of the bull - look it up ! I once bought a bull from him and his words to me were " if he isn't clean you don't own him " . What more guarantee can you get than that. I saw Jazzman in the same pasture that Bailey Farms seen him in and he was flat awesome as a calf and later when i saw him as a weaning age bull. I was aware they were going to test him for TH as a bull prospect just like all the owners were. I don't see the wrongdoing here at all. Everything was upfront. I was out at Jazzman's breeders house just a few weeks ago and he offered me lodging at HIS house to keep me from having to stay at some Motel 6 somewhere. He has been good to me and my family and even bought an extra plane ticket out of his pocket b/c he wanted to stay and see my son in the Final Drive when he won Reserve Grand at our State Show last year. I don't like it at all when this guy is stereotyped as some low rent scum trying to screw somebody out of a dollar. That couldn't be further from the truth. Bailey Farms should also be commended for coming forth with this info. He advertised a bull as TH and PHA free and when he found out he wasn't he let it be known - good for him - the world would be a better place if everyone was that upfront with everything !
OH Breeder
Well-known member
aj said:
The Academy Award for the most dramatic post in a controversial topic ................AJ..............the roar of the crowd. Just a bit dramatic don't you think.
knabe
Well-known member
shortdawg said:
he's still listed as PHA, TH free on their website.
aj
Well-known member
I stand corrected as always. I know dusty got worked over by greenthong or who ever that guy is. If you can work 3 people over a year for 10,000 thats pretty good money.It's a living.jmo <beer>
aj
Well-known member
I don't know anyone, I never know who to bow down to, I just don't think that the th test is the bad guy here. The greenthong guy is a different guy than whoever. I love jpj...I love jazzman.
farwest
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2008
- Messages
- 916
Just wonderin, anybody know any breeders that sell clubby bulls who might have a good one that will guarantee hes carrying every defect possible to insure some better expresson and hair on my straight bred cows. thanks....
Jill
Well-known member
So aj since you sell animals every year in the KJLA Club Calf sale, does that make you a crook? You have so far blasted Shorthorn sellers and Club Calf sellers both groups you are a part of, where do you fit into this scenario, does that mean you aren't to be trusted?
knabe
Well-known member
farwest said:
what one would need to do is screen embryo's for being homozygous for them, generate 1n cells, and convert to sperm somehow and sex the semen for males.
aj
Well-known member
I was told we were the only shorthorn deal that had the th status of the heifers shown on the lot information. I sleep pretty good at night.
Does anybody remember the conversation we had about testing for TH and having to request the test for the Outcast deletion? This was related to the fact that it was technically difficult to test for both deletions and the fact that the Outcast deletion is very very very rare - like 6 in 14,000 tested for both.
So anyhow, up until Jan 2008 the Outcast deletion was only tested for if requested by the owner or if the pedigree suggested it should be. Jazzman was tested in fall 2007 - there is nothing (nada, zero, zip) in his pedigree that suggests he should have the Outcast deletion
the investigation is ongoing ......CSI bovine ...with Gil Grishom as Dr Jon Beever and Sarah Sidel as the Barrel Racer....
I hate it when everybody does the right thing and it still doesn't work out
So anyhow, up until Jan 2008 the Outcast deletion was only tested for if requested by the owner or if the pedigree suggested it should be. Jazzman was tested in fall 2007 - there is nothing (nada, zero, zip) in his pedigree that suggests he should have the Outcast deletion
the investigation is ongoing ......CSI bovine ...with Gil Grishom as Dr Jon Beever and Sarah Sidel as the Barrel Racer....
I hate it when everybody does the right thing and it still doesn't work out
kfacres
Well-known member
my guess, the holstein back in the outcast pedigree, stemmed from the days of dual registering beef and dairy shorthorns... Nothing unusual to me...
Also, you'd be suprissed how many people of today are breeding some beef cows to holsteins for recips... And you always have to turn a cleanup bull in with the recips.. Might have gotten a great one worthy of keeping... and it went from there!
Also, you'd be suprissed how many people of today are breeding some beef cows to holsteins for recips... And you always have to turn a cleanup bull in with the recips.. Might have gotten a great one worthy of keeping... and it went from there!
