65% of the Shorthorn breeds current design is based on show heifers.

[Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR]

There was a herd in either Brazil or Argentina many decades ago that had tens of thousands of Shorthorn cows.  Was it Dugan or Duggan?  That was probably in the '50's or 60's. 

Duggan was the owner of a big herd in Argentina. On a time where huge "estancias" were full of cattle.

 

[beebe]

I think the beef society in Australia might have some genetics worthy of grass cattle.

 

[justintime]

There was a herd in either Brazil or Argentina many decades ago that had tens of thousands of Shorthorn cows.  Was it Dugan or Duggan?  That was probably in the '50's or 60's. 

Dale- I am not going to dig out the old catalog but I believe the bulls name was Louada Bonaparte- maybe a Bapton constuctor x Blood Royal deal? Louada purchased the Bapton herd of Scotland so this "mega bull sale to the family " was made following.  Dad had a bull out of a Blood Royal cowfamily... my parents honeymooned at Louada Farms, mom and dad stayed with Wib at the house. They still talk about the hospitality.  Anyway there are alot of marked sale catalogs from Louada Farms.  Bonaparte was shipped to Argentina. Nice write up in the old catalog- you might find it before I do?  Bapton Constructor was consider the best of the breed- I believe Calrossie of Scotland used him as well? If you all dig in Clipper King of USA's pedigree you can find Calrossie influences and I think Bapton too.

I was at Louada just a couple weeks before Bonaparte was leaving for Argentina. He had sold at $30,000 in their sale to Charles Duggan, a leading breeder in Argentina. This was approximately $227,000 in 2016 dollars when you convert it using an inflation calculator.
I have a vivid mental image of Bonaparte in my mind that appears every time I see some breeder suggesting we need to make our breeding stock smaller framed to gain some feed efficiency and fleshing ability. I doubt if Louada Bonaparte would have ever matured at more than 1400 lbs. There were lots of cattle in that era smaller than this bull, but the fact is that they were all bad. As Donald McGillvary, of the famed Calrossie herd in Scotland, told me a few years ago, he hoped that none of these cattle existed yet as they were absolutely no good. He said that breeders in that day got wrapped up in fads and paid little attention to what the beef industry was wanting, and that is why the Shorthorn breed spiraled downward in popularity to a point where the breed was placed on the endangered breed list in Britain.
A few years after, I visited Louada again and Bonaparte's son Louada Rothes King was walking the pastures there. I think Rothes King is the smallest mature herd bull I have ever seen myself, other than some of the miniature breeds like Dextor. I would think most Lowline herd sires today would be considerably bigger framed than this bull was.
My dad when to Louada searching for a bull to follow our main herd bull who was Louada Clachan, a son of Bapton Constructor. Clachan was actually a very big framed bull in that day, as he was over 2300 lbs but dad was able to buy him for $300 because no body wanted a bull that big. Every once in a while, Bapton Constructor would sire a bull that grew much bigger than he was, and Clachan was a good example of this. My parents went back to Louada to look for a bull to use on the Clachan daughters and he bought a Louada Rothes King son as he was the craze at that time. To this day, dad still says that was probably the worst mistake he ever made in his years of farming. I still have records of mature cows sired by this son of Rothes King selling at the local market at 850 lbs.

I guess I have learned that from time to time, we need to make corrections and adjustments in what we are breeding and producing. We get into problems when we run to the other end of the pendulum when change is required. I see many breeders do exactly this, and it usually ends up in a bad way. As I get older, it is becoming more obvious to me that most things in life are best in optimum amounts and this goes for our cattle as well. Too big framed or too small framed usually end up with cattle the industry doesn't want. Somewhere in the middle usually works better.

 

[sue]

Bonaparte was the sire of Louada's long time herd sire, Rothes King if my memory is correct.  Seems like the cow you're thinking of was Blood Royal 33rd.  In a Louada ad in the 60's, they had King's pedigree back about 8 generations or so. Rothes King, Bonaparte, Bapton Constructor, Calrossie Constellation, Welcome, and Harmony, Lawton President Roosevelt, and some Glastullich bull is the sire progression I remember, though they may not be in perfect order. Our neighbor, Ron Kellogg, bought Louada Rothes Prince, a full brother to Rothes King, from Billy Anderson in the 60's.  I bought a daughter of Prince from him and boy was she a producer! I also had daughters of Louada Aristocrat and Meadowview Constructor, both sons of Bapton Constructor.  There's a reason Clark became popular 10 years later. 

Billy Anderson switched into another breed of cattle? Always liked his bull ads - when I do look at older issues.  WC Anderson.... right?

 

[beebe]

There was a herd in either Brazil or Argentina many decades ago that had tens of thousands of Shorthorn cows.  Was it Dugan or Duggan?  That was probably in the '50's or 60's. 

Dale- I am not going to dig out the old catalog but I believe the bulls name was Louada Bonaparte- maybe a Bapton constuctor x Blood Royal deal? Louada purchased the Bapton herd of Scotland so this "mega bull sale to the family " was made following.  Dad had a bull out of a Blood Royal cowfamily... my parents honeymooned at Louada Farms, mom and dad stayed with Wib at the house. They still talk about the hospitality.  Anyway there are alot of marked sale catalogs from Louada Farms.  Bonaparte was shipped to Argentina. Nice write up in the old catalog- you might find it before I do?  Bapton Constructor was consider the best of the breed- I believe Calrossie of Scotland used him as well? If you all dig in Clipper King of USA's pedigree you can find Calrossie influences and I think Bapton too.

I was at Louada just a couple weeks before Bonaparte was leaving for Argentina. He had sold at $30,000 in their sale to Charles Duggan, a leading breeder in Argentina. This was approximately $227,000 in 2016 dollars when you convert it using an inflation calculator.
I have a vivid mental image of Bonaparte in my mind that appears every time I see some breeder suggesting we need to make our breeding stock smaller framed to gain some feed efficiency and fleshing ability. I doubt if Louada Bonaparte would have ever matured at more than 1400 lbs. There were lots of cattle in that era smaller than this bull, but the fact is that they were all bad. As Donald McGillvary, of the famed Calrossie herd in Scotland, told me a few years ago, he hoped that none of these cattle existed yet as they were absolutely no good. He said that breeders in that day got wrapped up in fads and paid little attention to what the beef industry was wanting, and that is why the Shorthorn breed spiraled downward in popularity to a point where the breed was placed on the endangered breed list in Britain.
A few years after, I visited Louada again and Bonaparte's son Louada Rothes King was walking the pastures there. I think Rothes King is the smallest mature herd bull I have ever seen myself, other than some of the miniature breeds like Dextor. I would think most Lowline herd sires today would be considerably bigger framed than this bull was.
My dad when to Louada searching for a bull to follow our main herd bull who was Louada Clachan, a son of Bapton Constructor. Clachan was actually a very big framed bull in that day, as he was over 2300 lbs but dad was able to buy him for $300 because no body wanted a bull that big. Every once in a while, Bapton Constructor would sire a bull that grew much bigger than he was, and Clachan was a good example of this. My parents went back to Louada to look for a bull to use on the Clachan daughters and he bought a Louada Rothes King son as he was the craze at that time. To this day, dad still says that was probably the worst mistake he ever made in his years of farming. I still have records of mature cows sired by this son of Rothes King selling at the local market at 850 lbs.

I guess I have learned that from time to time, we need to make corrections and adjustments in what we are breeding and producing. We get into problems when we run to the other end of the pendulum when change is required. I see many breeders do exactly this, and it usually ends up in a bad way. As I get older, it is becoming more obvious to me that most things in life are best in optimum amounts and this goes for our cattle as well. Too big framed or too small framed usually end up with cattle the industry doesn't want. Somewhere in the middle usually works better.

I agree with your somewhere in the middle statement.  Do we measure the middle in terms of pounds or maybe frame score or combination of the two?

 

[oakview]

Billy Anderson also had some Galloways.  I bought a Louada Aristocrat cow from him at the Hawkeye Downs sale in Cedar Rapids in the mid to late 60's, 615 for the pair.  She had a bull calf at side by Scotsdale Arrogant and we talked Mr. Anderson into taking the pair home to rebreed the cow to Arrogant.  The bull calf at side weaned at almost 400 pounds.  When the cow calved the next year, her udder was about 3 inches off the ground.  Fortunately for me, she had been through the procedure before and stood quietly while we tilted the calf's head so he could find breakfast the first time.  My brother bought an Aberdeldy Drum Major heifer from Roger Appelgate about that time.  She was the first heifer we showed at the Iowa State Fair, 49 years ago this summer.  Roger had purchased another bull from the Gardhouses, Aberfeldy Hostage, and we bred the heifer to him and got a white bull calf.  Drum Major, Hostage, and our heifer were pretty dark roans.  I always marveled at how Shorthorn calves got their color!  Funny how there are no descendants of these females in the herd, but we have some from the original cows that founded our herd that weren't so desirable because they didn't have a "good head."  Billy Anderson was a MASTER fitter in the day and pretty hard to beat at the Iowa State Fair and Chicago for that matter.   

 

[aj]

A master fitter.......I detect a pattern here. bahahahahaha

 

[justintime]

A master fitter.......I detect a pattern here. bahahahahaha

In that era ( or any other era for that matter) if you are involved in showing cattle, why would you not want to be the best you can be? Why would you not want to present your cattle to the best of your ability?  Why would you even bother, unless you tried your very best? 

If you aren't going to try your best, this mentality smacks of the current day philosophy where everyone gets a participation ribbon and everyone is a winner. IMO, this is one of the biggest decays I see in modern society. Learning to do your best and learning that you don't always win, are important lessons in life. If Billy Anderson was a master fitter, I take my hat off to him. He certainly could have done worse! He could have just been a participant who no one remembered and who's cattle were just unmemorable as well. I think it is good that this man had a passion for what he did. Boy, we sure could see more of that trait in most every part of our society today!
There is absolutely nothing wrong with being considered a master at anything you do in life. It at least shows that a person is trying to excel and get better.

 

[Okotoks]

A master fitter.......I detect a pattern here. bahahahahaha

In that era ( or any other era for that matter) if you are involved in showing cattle, why would you not want to be the best you can be? Why would you not want to present your cattle to the best of your ability?  Why would you even bother, unless you tried your very best? 

If you aren't going to try your best, this mentality smacks of the current day philosophy where everyone gets a participation ribbon and everyone is a winner. IMO, this is one of the biggest decays I see in modern society. Learning to do your best and learning that you don't always win, are important lessons in life. If Billy Anderson was a master fitter, I take my hat off to him. He certainly could have done worse! He could have just been a participant who no one remembered and who's cattle were just unmemorable as well. I think it is good that this man had a passion for what he did. Boy, we sure could see more of that trait in most every part of our society today!
There is absolutely nothing wrong with being considered a master at anything you do in life. It at least shows that a person is trying to excel and get better.

You are right JIT (thumbsup) People that are trying to excel are usually too busy and focused to ridicule others. One doesn't have to have the same goals as others but hard work is something everyone should appreciate.

 

[oakview]

I think probably the "master" fitter for Billy Anderson was a gentleman known only to me as "Snow."  Ben Studer hired him later on and he did wonders for the Studers, too.  Mike Studer was one of the best, in the midwest at least, in the late 60's and early 70's.  Some time pick up some old Shorthorn Country magazines and see what he did with Weston White Count and Weston Independence.  He did pretty good with a couple Shadybrook heifers from Bert Hanson, too.  I third the motion that there's nothing wrong with trying to excel.  Sometimes I wish the young baseball players I coach that it would be okay if they tried to excel, too!   

 

[shortyjock89]

You're not allowed to be good at presenting cattle to be taken seriously. Duh.

Just like Ned and Jan Ward, Dale Venhuizen, the Colyers, Silveiras, Hoffman, Cates. These people make their living from their cattle and are also master fitters. They must be awful cattlemen. So sick of the attitude that just because cattle are presented to a T that they are not actually good animals. It's jealousy and extremely ugly. I know many "commercial" cattlemen that couldn't lick the boots of the people that only I mentioned, let alone some of these others from days gone by.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

The people who can feed and fit some of the cattle I see-and I mean all cattle-not just Shorthorns have a gift-Ive stood by and watched a number of national champions or champion steers in get ready-its amazing to me how what looks sometimes  like an awkward motion brings out such an incredible look. In past years I thought Gary Bucholtz was the best of them all-and the most phenominal animal he ever had was the Double Trouble out of a JIT Canadian cow-Even Aron Hartmans National Champ Female paled to that one. He never got the credit he deserved.And I suppose thats why he just does Herefords O0

 

[knabe]

A master fitter.......I detect a pattern here. bahahahahaha

complaints about show cattle.  i see a pattern here.


what a hypocrite.


make something instead of taking a carrier to denver.


i mean really. grow up.

 

[aj]

I stand corrected from the leaders of the Shorthorn breed........bahahahahahahaahhah

 

[knabe]

I stand corrected from the leaders of the Shorthorn breed........bahahahahahahaahhah

You don't stand corrected. You stand laughing. If you stood corrected, you would change. We get it. You can't change.

You are too lazy to look up definitions of words you use at coop trying to act smart but really aren't when instead you could be buying some good shorthorns. We know you can't make any, you are too busy introducing other breeds into your mongrel herd. you are too lazy to fix the misspelling of Gizmo's name on your website. For some reason, you directed me to your website where you list some Maine influence cattle instead of shorthorns. Really, the only think of interest is the sod house. It's really a sad house.

I mean really, you are an embarrassment to the shorthorn breed, moreso than the show lines you continually complain about.

Don't you think it's time to show us how it's done?

 

[aj]

And all this because I said "a master fitter.....I detect a pattern here".

 

[knabe]

The pattern is that you are a broken record.

 

[JTM]

Being good at presenting cattle is fun and a good thing. It's fun to teach young people and get them into livestock and cattle. There is a dark side though. The ones that get "too good" at it. The pumping of fluids, the cutting of flesh and sewing back, the surgical removal of briskets and sheaths, use of steroid enhancers, use of air to separate skin from muscle to create scar tissue that appears as muscle, lying on birth dates by 2-3 months and sometimes more to gain advantage in purebred classes, and many other things that I can't think of right now. I am so pleased to be in an industry where I am judged by the quality of product I produce instead of judged by someone's opinion among all these things that people are doing to win. That's what I want for my children and that's the kind of business ethics that I will teach them.

 

[justintime]

Being good at presenting cattle is fun and a good thing. It's fun to teach young people and get them into livestock and cattle. There is a dark side though. The ones that get "too good" at it. The pumping of fluids, the cutting of flesh and sewing back, the surgical removal of briskets and sheaths, use of steroid enhancers, use of air to separate skin from muscle to create scar tissue that appears as muscle, lying on birth dates by 2-3 months and sometimes more to gain advantage in purebred classes, and many other things that I can't think of right now. I am so pleased to be in an industry where I am judged by the quality of product I produce instead of judged by someone's opinion among all these things that people are doing to win. That's what I want for my children and that's the kind of business ethics that I will teach them.

I do not think being called a Master Fitter has to include a bunch of unethical practices to try to win at any cost. In fact, my definition of a master fitter would only include those who do their best and never have to have anyone question their ethics.

 

[shortyjock89]

I've been in charge of the daily care for many national champion caliber cattle while at CYT, Torrance, and even my own barn if that counts.....and I've never ever been asked to do something like any of that. There are actually very few PB producers that do seriously sketchy things. Steer and club calf guys, I'm not so sure.