AI'ing Heifers

[JSchroeder]

Every scientific document I can find indicates that conception rates are higher for heifers.  I can't stand messing with them.

What does it mean when there is absolutely no definition to the cervix despite cycling at the same time as other cows with rock hard definition?

I don't AI our own heifers any more because I get so frustrated with that but agreed to AI a few for a friend this year.

 

[MYT Farms]

At A.I. school, I tried to find the cervix on a feedlot heifer that wasn't in heat. You want to talk about tough. Usually, when the heifer's in heat, that cervix will have enough tone to be able to find it. Just be expecting to find something as small as your pinky finger. I usually find that I'm looking for something way to large.

 

[shortdawg]

I'd rather breed heifers than cows - maybe I'm the exception than the morm. I don't think I've ever had a cervix on the heifers I've bred be bigger than a magic marker.

 

[kfacres]

I'd rather breed heifers than cows - maybe I'm the exception than the morm. I don't think I've ever had a cervix on the heifers I've bred be bigger than a magic marker.

OR bent, crooked, or so far up in a cow, that you have to get up to your armpit (clapping)

most  heifers i breed, are about wrist deep

 

[MCC]

I agree with shortdawg, most heifers are a lot easier to breed for me than cows. (cow)

 

[firesweepranch]

I'd rather breed heifers than cows - maybe I'm the exception than the morm. I don't think I've ever had a cervix on the heifers I've bred be bigger than a magic marker.

I agree! When my daughter bred her first heifer, she got this look of  "oh my gosh" because the cervix was so small compared to the cows the AI school used; of course all kill cows so nothing but reproductive problems! And the heifers have their cervix shallow compared to some cows... She and I both think heifers are easier than cows any day!

 

[kfacres]

I think the worst thing, atleast around here is.. that our heifers are being developed out in the middle of no-where, on sticks and such.. in places we have to haul in gates to corral them, whereas the cows are for the most part centered around and closer to home.. so we can keep an eye on the calves and their development...  For us anyways, it's far easier to turn a bull out with the heifers, and forget about them, as opposed to watching them all the time, as we do with the cows. (pop)

 

[JSchroeder]

Hmm, I can't stand breeding the darn things.  Give me a large, well defined cow any day of the week.  They're only 13 hours post standing right now, back to it.

 

[JSchroeder]

Don't go from 4th calf+ American cows to yearling British heifers, there's half my problem. 

When I started thinking finger tips instead of full hand things clicked.

I had taken a similar approach to the above for a long time, just send the calving ease bull out.  It's probably been at least 100 cows since the last yearling heifer I attempted.

 

[Freddy]

When I first  breeding about 45 years ago I hated the heifers an all my teachers were saying how easy they were, that many years later I look forward to heifers an there not usually 5 bucket full of grass before I get to cervex .....Once I relaxed it is so easy, but I'm starting to have trouble with arthritis ...


For you young guys thirty an if your confident of your AI'ING  you should have your rmbryo guy help you learn to put them in , I tried it after fifty an got one to stick an decided that I was getting to old , but sure wished I could have been younger cause I know I could have done it..  GET THE parts from your butcher an start learning the feel there an you should master it... Make sure you deaden the tailhead good ,an that is almost as important as the rest of it ,cause they told me you could do damaage if not having that cow ready properly ...

 

[hntwhitetail]

When I first  breeding about 45 years ago I hated the heifers an all my teachers were saying how easy they were, that many years later I look forward to heifers an there not usually 5 bucket full of grass before I get to cervex .....Once I relaxed it is so easy, but I'm starting to have trouble with arthritis ...


For you young guys thirty an if your confident of your AI'ING  you should have your rmbryo guy help you learn to put them in , I tried it after fifty an got one to stick an decided that I was getting to old , but sure wished I could have been younger cause I know I could have done it..  GET THE parts from your butcher an start learning the feel there an you should master it... Make sure you deaden the tailhead good ,an that is almost as important as the rest of it ,cause they told me you could do damaage if not having that cow ready properly ...

Thanks for the tip.

 

[Cowboy]

Hey Jeff and everyone else who has problems with hfrs -- here is something that will really help you all.

Just in case you have read too many of the BOOKS, throw most of them away and do what i do -- WAIT

If you are used to breeding your cows in the WRITTEN rule of 12 hours fro first standing, you are for the most part waisting your itme with these hfrs.

All the books say they cycle faster and quit sooner, and ovulate sooner too -- WRONG. The mention of deffinition aboe tells me in Cowboy languange that you are not finding any tone to the tract when you try to breed them. Here is the reason..

When a cow or hfr is , lets say 12 hours or so from showing heat, the uterus and cervix are usually VERY toned up and firm, but as they come into heat, everything go soft and mushy, and stays that way until several hours before ovulation. Then the whole thing gets rock hgard again and is very firm and toned all the way thru the tract. That is a dead give away, if you go in a hfr, and she is not toned up and firm, you are too early. Give them several hours and try again -- you will see what I mean.

I have not had a hfr -- a virgin hfr -- repeat from her first service but ONCE in almost 20 years. I suspect you will fiond that to be hard to believe, but the only hfr that ever came back from her first A-I was the ONLY one I ever bred too early. Fact -- so the books can say what they want, give these hfrs a few extra hours than the normal cow and you will be very happy with your results. That small muchy cervix will not be a little toned up cigar, and your gun will almost fall into place. If you breed them too early, you will have hell to pay to tell where you are at in there, and also have trouble trying to get thru the thing in the first place. We are not alking a few hfrs here folks, we are talking litterally thousands of them, and I love breeding hfrs. Makes my job a whole bunch easier!

Tranfering embryos on the other hand is another story -- those little cervix's, easy while in heat , become a nighmare when all dried out and shrunken back to normal. Unless you are lucky to find the few who are easy, you will wish you were in a different line of work. Once thru the cervix however, it is game over -- done deal as they are real easy then.

Congrats to all who have stuck it out and got it done, hfrs are our future, they deserve the best bulls out there and still be able to calve -- go for it!

Good luck -- Terry

 

[JSchroeder]

Thanks Cowboy, that makes tonight's mini-class make a lot more sense.  You're correct about definition = tone, I just use different wording.

After checking the times, it was actually three hours before I went back in on those heifers.  While the cigar could only be described as half smoked, it was definitely there the second time. 

And judging from the time, I hope whatever you were just working on stuck too.

 

[Cowboy]

Please excuse my normal typos folks, it's a combination of arthritis and excitement!! When ever I get in a hurry, these aging fingers do funny things!

The tone of your tract will dictate to you if you are on time or not. It seems to me that most if not all cattle get alot firmer tone when they are all done being in heat, and things start to prepare for ovulation. There is a hormone release when you stimulate the uterus, and if you are too early, that hormone (Oxytocin) will have been for nothing. It is kind of like metting people, you only have 1 chance to make a good impression, and in this case, that impression is the initial relase of oxytocin that will help shoot that semen forward. If you are too early, the semen is there -- but there is no party to go with it!!! hehehe

I usually wait at least 6 hours, and many times 8 or more, from the time they QUIT riding, notice I said RIDING, not standing. When all is quiet, I wait about 6 hours or what is not too inconvenient and go bred them. It flat works.

The donors are the same thing here, as my post time last night will prove. The particular cow that was my victom last night stayed in heat for several hours longer than normal, but started late too. I was actually just getting ready to go out and breed her when I posted! She felt awesome at 3 AM hehehehe!

Patience every one, even I get excited and some times wish I had waited longer --- so remember this -- it is pretty dificult to be TOO late, but very easy to be too early! That rule is written in stone here!

Good luck in Denver, I May not make it this year, I might have to flush that morning seeng how this cow came in late -- I will see !!

Terry

 

[Cattledog]

Thank you Cowboy!  I bred a heifer over a month ago and had some problems getting through the cervix and there wasn't much tone.  I finally got it done and I just got the blood test back and she was bred.  It sounds like I was a little early but not too early. I will wait the next time I run into the same situation.  Also, I believe I read another post from you that the longer you wait the more likely you are to get heifers.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[kfacres]

Wait a min.. I thought I WAS following, but have since determined I'm more confused.. Cowboy, could you go through you breeding scheme again..  Used to be, everyone said to breed in standing heat, then it was wait.. if you saw them in the am., breed them in pm...  then it was, it doesn't matter, now what are you saying..  Also please go in more depth with the feel of the cervix.. I'm sure I know what you are talking about, but a lack of sleep through lambing and calving must be getting to me head..

 

[Cowboy]

Cattledog -- sorry to say this, but you have it reversed a little. Male sperm swim faster but do not live QUITE as long as the females. Thus, if you can get extremely lucky and guess on the ovulation just right, the swim time and a few hundred other things thrown in as well, the later you breed " TO A POINT"", the more bulls you should get. This also assumes the normal 51-49 cell ratios etc.

I do know that when I want a hfr here , and try ot push the envelope too much, that is when I have my repeats if any at all. I normally just breed them all late, and hope for the best. Been running about 60-40 bulls and hfrs so it does make a little difference if done religiously every year.

Seems you have it going well there, if it works -- don't fix it -- done deal!!

To "the truth" -- nothing remotely related to rocket science here pard -- just the fact that in the pens of the real cattle world, I have yet to see a cow who knew how to read something put in print in some University think tank.

I have always felt, and followed it -- that alot of cows are simply being bred way too early if just bred on the 12 hour rule Am-Pm. Watch your cows folks, they talk to us every day, we just need to know what they are saying. In this case, if you get up in the morning and you see old Bossie nosing around and sniffing every one, well -- she is getting interested. By noon, you notice she is trying to ride, but won't quite stand yet. She stands at 3 pm! Good, Now when do you breed her??

When she is all done standing for at least 4-6 hours if she were here! Pretty simple, that means she will still be too early to breed at dawn the next morning, so take your time, have a 4th cup of coffee, and go see her at 10 instead! You would be surprised as to how many cows you can get bred the first time if the main thing you think of is timing! Marvelous thing time is. hehehehe

Try not to get frustrated or confused. If all else fails, just follow the books -- for the most 

Terry

 

[kfacres]

Interesting.. So you shy towards breeding late.. dual term.. not only does it (maybe get more heifers), but it will in general cause more pregnancies.. 

Next question.. blood test for preg>> Thoughts.. got to run, heard a ewe just lambed.. gotta go (argue)

 

[Cattledog]

Cattledog -- sorry to say this, but you have it reversed a little. Male sperm swim faster but do not live QUITE as long as the females. Thus, if you can get extremely lucky and guess on the ovulation just right, the swim time and a few hundred other things thrown in as well, the later you breed " TO A POINT"", the more bulls you should get. This also assumes the normal 51-49 cell ratios etc.

Thanks for the correction!  I can't say that I've tried breeding early or late.  With a full time job I can't watch them enough to know exactly when they started standing.  I do catch a couple a year right on the button.  Maybe I'll experiment a little.  Thanks again!

 

[hntwhitetail]

Thanks for the good info.  I had one come into heat around 7:30am this morning.  I bred her this evening @ 6 due to a commitment and she did not have the best tone.  I am probably going to go out and try and put another straw in the heifer around 10pm.  I had trouble w/ a group of synched heifers last year... a few your could really find the cerix and a few you could not.  It seemed to me that this heifers cervix was a little further back, but i will check her in about 2hrs again.

For some reason, I just find heifers a little more difficult than their cow counterparts.  My conception rates on heifers last year was 75% and all of the heifers that had good tone I was 100% on.  Maybe I'm just lacking confidence w/ a floppy cervix as was stated earlier.

On the cows last year, I was 18 for 20 on standing heat and the 2 were right in between cycles, so who knows for sure.