Alcohol mixed with Junior shows, 4-H, FFA, etc, etc,....not cattle related

[cowz]

Locally, in our Jr. Breed Assoc. meeting, we got into a great discussion.   Why is it that everybody feels it is OK for drinks to be consumed in the middle of the day in the show barn at a show designed to be specifically geared to those under 21.  At a junior national we recently attended, beer coolers were open before noon and one state association table even had a margarita machine one evening!     These deals are for kids!    At home, nobody blinks an eyelash when the 4H leaders and chaparones are blotto every night.   What kind of example does this set?   I was told by one of these people that I should not worry, their just showing them what college will be like.   County agents are not willing to rock the boat by questioning the leaders.

What do you all think?   Is this just a cattle show, county fair, state fair, rodeo, judging team thing or what?

 

[Show Heifer]

It is much like cheating in my opinion in the fact that.... yes, everyone does it, but it doesn't make it right or acceptable.
I am 100% against alcohol in an event that is designed by and designed for junior members. It not only sets a bad example, but it ENCOURAGES drunk driving. Which in, my opionion, is a bad thing.  If an adult can not go without alcohol for a day at a cattle show, they are an alcoholic and need to seek help.

 

[the angus111]

wow!I hope the adults would make it a lot less obvious.It is done and I am as guilty as anyone,but I try to be discreet about it.Your going to have young people at open shows,where it happens more.I would not encourage youth to do it and if I saw someone not of age doing it I would take it away.I t was a stupid comment" just showing what college is like" though!that is what adult mixers are for.Rusty

 

[cowz]

I guess that I should make the comment that I hope I do not sound like an old prude!  I enjoy sitting on the tailgate of a pick up with a cold one, too.  And I have done this in front of my kids.

BUT, the point I am trying to make is that these kids IDOLIZE their leaders, fitters, coaches.  They want to do what they see them do.  I am not opposed to a social drink, but alot of these folks sit down by the showbox or out in the parking lot and drink a whole cooler and get smashed.    AND, then they drive home.  My real hang up is that nobody seems to have the integrity to turn down a second drink and say, "no thanks, Ive had enough" or not today "Im pulling the trailer home."

 

[Cattledog]

I don't have a problem with people drinking in the open barn.  The junior barn is a different deal.  Do people drink at school plays?  I don't think so.

To me there is nothing worse than a kid seeing somebody who's belligerently drunk and acting like a fool!  I imagine everyone on here seen somebody well over-served and there are always a group of kids standing right there laughing and thinking it's ok.  As stated earlier these people usually hop in the truck and head for home when the party is over. 

 

[aj]

Alcohol is a tricky subject. I know I went to college in a town that had a deep Volga-German heritage. The kids that grew up in these communities grew up having a beer for dinner every day. So beer wasn't any big deal. Getting stupid with it is different also. Alcoholics are affected differently also. If it is illegal it is illegal though. I sometimes think it is worse for a kid who is shielded from alcohol sometimes finally get their hands on it then get into trouble driving or whatever not knowing limitations. To me the 21 law is ridiculous as it should be 18. Good topic. I would think that it would be better for law enforcement to police it than citizens.jmo

 

[knabe]

i suggest people really look at this blog.

http://www.duiblog.com/

i can't decide, wow, knabe on the fence, who would have thought.  the time for alcohol is when you are done working.  if you are walking around and not working, i guess it's ok.  i have no problem telling my daughter that it's not for her.  she gets her own glass with something else in it so she doesn't feel left out which is the training they get to make them want it real bad and then, the urge to get it is greater than the self control and then they have problems.

i guess for me, and yes, i know people get killed, but i think it would be more efficient to make drunk driving fines heavy, like say $5000 1st offense, $7500,2nd etc and make them tickets.  then after 3 or some number in a certain time with a mechanism for checking, then get more aggressive to get the alcoholics license away and/or in jail.  yes, some people will still die, probably the same number, but we would save on court costs, court time, police time etc.

i would suggest looking this entry over.

http://www.duiblog.com/2004/10/23/a-closer-look-at-dui-fatality-statistics/

so, if we outlaw all alcohol, we would still have death from cars and using the analogy, one death is too many, then we should get rid of all cars.

 

[Cattledog]

To me the 21 law is ridiculous as it should be 18. Good topic.

When I was 18 I would have agreed with you wholeheartedly.  Since I had to wait they can too! 

All kidding aside, there have been some really good points brought up.  I am trying to be careful to not be a hypocrite on this topic because I enjoy a good beer as much as anyone.  Have I drank underage?  The answer is yes, more times than I can recall. Alot of time it revolved around cattle shows when I was hanging out with the big boys and them taking me under their wing.  In all reality they could have found a more constructive way to show me they liked having me around.  They could have critiqued me more on my clipping, fitting, and feeding.  I guess it's just easier to sit around and drink beer....

 

 

[TMJ Show Cattle]

This is a great subject. I learned how to drink alcohol at cattle shows back in the fifties. It is something that has been traditional stemming from celebration of having "Champion" bull at any level of "show". Like anything else it escalated to being something "normally' done at livestock shows. I quit drinking at "shows" over 20 years ago,after gettin so damn drunk that most of the youngsters were laughing with me,at me,and asking how I was feelin the next day. It was embarassing to say the least. I'm proud to say I quit altogether nearly 10 years ago,after a lifelong battle. I don't blame my problem on anything from the past. just damn poor judgement on my part. Should people "drink" alcohol at livestock shows? Probably not. Will they continue to do so? Probably so. Hell,some adults have problems that carry on, even when at livestock shows. Most drinking that takes place that I have seen in recent years is pretty much controlled light social drinking. Bad influence on the kids? Yes,probably so. Most kids i know and see at most shows aren't interested in drinking. There will always be a chosen few that will do what they want, when they want and you, me or anyone else will never convince them otherwise. Sometimes, something tragic has to happen before reality sets us apart. I will NOT get up on a HI-Horse and preach to anyone about what they should or shouldn't do at any function. Sooner or later, when you dance with the devil,there are due's to pay. We all hope a beer or two here and there won't tragically maime or end the life of someone's son or daughter,or devastates a way of life as we most know and enjoy. As far as comparing it to "cheating" by what some feel as unethical practices at cattle shows,this is a joke. In reality it is much more worse[the consequences] than anything you could do to a steer or heifer to gain an edge. I just hope for those who decide to celebrate or enjoy themselves by indulging in a beer anywhere they may be,to drink as responsible as possible,be careful of letting teenagers or any under age drinking take place in a public place as you will be scrutinized by some. Remeber this: When you dance with the devil in the bottle,it could be yours or some innocent someone's, LAST dance....Good Luck and Best Wishes to all...John

 

[Show Heifer]

tmj, if you read my post correctly, I compared drinking at cattle shows to cheating in the way that "everyone does it". Everyone does, you said so yourself in the cheating post. That was my point, even if everyone does it, it doesn't make it right. I have seen the "jr barn" at the state fair, it isn't pretty, and it get uglier as the night goes along. And then, they take photos and plaster them all over facebook and my space. Wow how much dumber can they get?

A few of you might, (maybe, maybe not) might change your opinion if you happen to have known someone killed to a drunk driver. I have known 3 in my life. To say I do not take kindly to "drinking a few" and then driving is an under understatment.  I also won't get on a high horse. Do what you feel is right and hopefully, no one INNOCENT will be killed or maimed.

 

[Cattledog]

I thnk we may be getting a little off topic here.  I was guilty of it too in a previous post.  Not everyone that drinks at a cattle show drives after.  Legally, as long as they are below .08 in the state of illinois you aren't breaking the law.  I'm not arguing for drunk drivers...I agree with everyones thoughts on this as I have lost a friend to this. 

So we are kind of split at if you should drink in the open barn.  If you come to my state fair you will find beer in my cooler.  At the end of a long hot day when the stalls are cleaned and the cattle are tied out I may kick back and drink some beer.  My blood alcohol may hit .08(it doesn't take much)  or higher but luckily my camper is in walking distance.  Then again I might grab a bottle of water and just go to bed.  The latter has been the case since I'm now a dad and am always tired.

I may catch hell for this, but alcohol isn't evil. 

That's like saying guns kill people........ and now I'm getting off topic.

For the record, drinking in junior barns shouldn't be alowed.

 

[DLD]

There's a time and a place for everything.  Drinking at junior shows around here is pretty strongly frowned upon (can't really speak for the jackpots, we don't go there much).  It does happen, but for the most part it's kept pretty discreet.  On the other hand, I've been to junior shows in other states where there's beer for sale in the show arena.  Obviously they look at it a little differently there.

I drink a little, and I don't hide it from my kids, mainly because I don't want them to hide it from me.  I try to always use moderation, and never, ever drive if I've been drinking - I figure that's part of teaching them to do the same.

 

[knabe]

I drink a little, and I don't hide it from my kids, mainly because I don't want them to hide it from me. 

that technique works for lots of things.

 

[ELBEE]

What we as parents practice in moderation, our children will practice in abundance!

 

[aj]

There is an inherent risk to just get up and walk outside. I'll be honest.....mobile phone users scare me more than drunk drivers.Seriously.

 

[the angus111]

I grew up in the 70's.You could drink at 18.I t might be that i didnt pay attention,but i dont remember alot of DUI'S.MADD has brought it the forefront and rightfully so,but I believe the states have figured out it is a big moneymaker.SHOW HEIFER i still think its bad ,but there is another side to this. IMO,Rusty

 

[cowz]

Seems like we all know a guy like this......

www.cattlerange.com/DUIStop/

Click on DUI Stop

It's hard not to laugh.....but these guys are sometimes the ones that teenagers cant help but idolize.

;D

 

[CGC]

This is a very strong topic and one that is probably an issue in every state.  However, it is a topic that needs to be talked about at all levels starting at the bottom with county fairs and jackpots.  I will admit I am very guilty of drinking at shows, yes I try to wait until the show is over or until it's later in the evening when families have started to thin out and only a select few are left in the barns.  I have witnessed first hand seeing a well known fitter so trashed that he made a scene at state fair and the rest of his buddies laugh about it and then encourage another drink outside of the barn.  I didn't exactly agree with this but I was in a new state at the time and hadn't exactly been around the drinking where it was done so openly infront of the jr members.  Yes leaders drink, but I think that the smart thing to do is to do it in privacy of family or at dinner when you are somewhat on your personal time, unless you are having dinner as a group or you are driving all of the kiddo's.  My personal thought is that if the leaders (fitters, agents, group leaders, etc..) aren't smart enough to realize that these young children/adults are watching their every move then take action at the lowest level and remove or have a chat with them.  Sometiems it just takes hearing it from the outside from several different people.  I am well aware of the origin of this original post and Im not poking at this one state, this is going on everywhere.  I tried my best to not drink infront of the kiddo's but after I was around it for so long I gave in and usually quit after 2/3 because I had to drive us home.  Having a daughter of my own now I look back and wonder what will come of the kids that I drank infront of and just how they will act when they become of age and begin helping others.  This is not something that Im proud of but atleast I can say I tried my best to hide my drinks when our main family was around because I didn't want the two children to see me and think that it was "OK" to drink so openly.  And as for the comment " it's showing them what college will be like"  it took a very low person to say that.  And I hope that this person isn't someone that helps kids in that state because he/she is no role model, college degree or not!

 

[knabe]

the origin and utility of fermentation has been lost.

 

[aj]

Elucidate knabe you mysterious instigator of record dear sir.