all around best simmi bull

[CM Livestock]

What is eveyones opinion on the best bull?  bulls and heifers both need to be good  and semen cant cost an arm and a leg

 

[shortdawg]

Macho, Dream On

 

[Bone2011]

Dream On

 

[xxcc]

600U

 

[CMB]

Dream On

 

[FutureBreeder2013]

Its a pretty tough question to answer since everyone has their own preference, but I'd say Grandmaster.

 

[husker1]

I'm going with Dream On, or my two favorites sons of his.....In Dew Time and Built Right.  These bulls all make great females, and the majority of the sons are acceptable as well.  Each may have a little quirk, but in terms of consistency, I'd put them up against anyone.

 

[Freddy]

I'm new at these Simmi's , what about Dream catcher or the SWEET MEAT BULL   OR THE  wHEATLAND BULL 680S
i THANKS FOR THE INFO

 

[LN]

I was told that Sweet Meat is a bull to use by the ASA staff member that heads up the young sires testing project. He said the calves look great, but he should definitely be used on mature cows. I AI'd about 15 of my cows to him this past month so now all I can do is wait.

 

[herefordfootball]

I think its more of an opinion. But I like Dream On. His calves seem consistently good, we really good calving ease.

 

[Bulldaddy]

Best is a subjective evaluation but based on my experience selling mainly commercial bulls and an occasional show heifer, I like Ellingtons Black Pefector, Ebonys Trademark, In Dew Time, GW Lucky Man, Preffered Beef.  Dream On has worked well for me but I feel he has been over used so I either use one of his sons or don't use him at all.  Matching the bull to the cow is probably the most important aspect of sire selection.

 

[LinZ]

Best at what? You're not going to find many bulls that sire the show winners that perform commercially...I know some people say that line can be walked between both but I just don't think with the exceptions of a few cases that it can be done consistently. Going from that.... Showring for siring both bulls and heifers...Dream On was...I don't think it's profitable to use him anymore in most cases, particularly if you wind up with a bull calf, marketing those is getting harder and harder. Heifer wise I still think you'd be ok to use him. However, there some bulls that do a good job. Joker....show ring winners, he had plenty, maybe not the sheer numbers that Dream On had but during his turn he did a darn good jobs and alot of bulls and heifers that do well go back to him as a MGS, and commercial or not I don't know of any other cow that I'd rather have than a Joker. Non=show side of it Preferred Beef & Above Par. All the above bulls mentioned(in my post) sire good structure..some just tend to focus more on the show side of it and some on the commercial side of it.

Now..that aside.. I personally will not use Dream On... As I said..when you go for the show ring side of it you sometimes tend to lose the commercial profitable end of it...I personally bought 6 Dream On daughters, all from different breeders, within a year of buying them all but one of them had to be sent back to the breeders or sent to the stockyard because they had problems reproductively, and non of those problems were related to being show animals and becoming too fat.. coincidence they were all sired by the same bull?? I think not.

Bulls that I do and would use instead are... Macho..on soft middle, deep bodied cows. Trademark, if you're looking to add guts and good spring of rib, he can deff work for you, and keep the good structure. Enhancer, def more for a show bull but calves out of him do have style to burn. Mo Better, adds loads of rib, excellent muscling, I would use him on cattle with plenty of bone and pretty good fronts. Momentum, Use on good fronted cattle, will add depth and power. I've also used Aces of Fortune and Montana Black with good results. Grandmaster.... I LOVE... cool pedigree, throws cool calves with loads of rib, good structure, style..one of the better overall balanced bulls, crosses well with shorthorns and other breeds as well which is another high point for him..

Ones I would not use... Invasion, structure. In Dew Time, fertility and structure problems. Dream Catcher, he's been around a lonnng time and I have yet to see a true good one out of him. Built Right.. I have one good daughter of his that I like with the exception of.... too small...he throws them too moderate framed and will sure as heck put some extra white on them.


JMHO on a few..

LinZ

 

[fluffer]

I agree with Dream On being the best Simmi bull for cows and heifers and producing show quality cattle as well as good replacement females and feedlot cattle.  Another Simmental bull that we really like to use, and we use him on all our heifers, is Hooks Shear Force.  Calves come easy and are very stylish.  

Fluffer

 

[husker1]

Matching the bull to the cow is probably the most important aspect of sire selection.

BINGO!!!!!

 

[olsun]

LinZ, thanks for a great post, very informative (clapping). Grandmaster is the main reason for my earlier thread about MCE. I like the looks of the bull, and I like all of his numbers except MCE. Is there any reasonable explanation for his minus number ? Should he be used in spite of  it ? Again, great post, thank you.

 

[LinZ]

Thanks olsun....I spend more time than I should selecting certain matings.. Honestly.. The way I decide whom to use on whom..is of course first look at the cow..and what she needs... Then when selecting bulls...first and formost...how does the bull look..2nd ...look at the calves ..now I wouldn't use one just off of how one or two look because a calf out of a crappy cow and a good bull can still be crappy...and if they don't have calves look at the pedigree....such as with Grandmaster..his sire and dam are both well proven and pretty easy to see what they'll throw... last and pretty close to least I look at EPD's... Most should know that numbers in alot of cases are lies...I mean honestly..how many people take out scales in the freezing cold and weigh every calf? I know some people do but sometimes it's almost impossible to get that done.. and then if the calves are really heavy some people want to fudge it just a bit... Basically unless I'm breeding to a heifer I generally don't pay too much attention to EPDs and even then their not too accurate....I stick to under a 2 on BW on heifers as a general rule..otherwise ...not so much..Yes it's  good to have good numbers on one but if they look like crap I'm not keeping now buying one regardless of their EPD's.... I would, have and am using Grandmaster on heifers.

 

[Sammy]

We have quite a few cows bred to Grandmaster, over 50, and have started getting a few on the ground - very moderate birth weights with great vigor so far and would probably be OK for well monitored heifers depending upon their breeding -  if the heifers are clubby bred you know the risks - lot of bone on some of the calves, but not heavy birth weights as 65 to 80 so far with them generally coming a few days early - a lot more style and "look" than I expected and extremely consistent - best calves of 4 sires used - looks like a good breeding decision for a change, so far- did not breed him to any heifers but probably would consider after seeing these calves - will wait to see total results at the end of calving - calves are 1/2, 5/8 and 3/4 Simmental -

 

[jbw]

If you look at what one bull has done more for the Simmi breed, It is hands down Dream On!!  I am not saying that he is the best bull that has been, but he's done more, in the fact that he gave the breed a shot in the arm and shed a little more light on the breed that it needed.

Think of how many people did not even look at Simm. 10 years ago!

I have used simm. for 25 years.  Salute, Doubletime, Max, on and on. But I know alot of people that are using simm genetics know that never gave them a look before, Dream On sons, grandsons.

I feel that Dream on opened the doors for alot, ALOT of other bulls in the breed.

 

[SHAGGY]

I would be one of those people  (thumbsup). Going to use some simmie in the herd for the first time. Probably Dream On son Built Right after my other post.

 

[Jenny]

I have personally been breeding Simmis for 40 years; I started as a little kid heat detecting; my dad's ASA number was in the first 1000, so we were in it from the very beginning.
We run a good number of cows; have probably had over 100 Dream On sired calves born here (without checking here for sure) and they are so useful; he has worked on heifers so well for us, that is what we have used on clubby heifer and Simmi heifers both...a way to get a nice calf without it being a "throw away" calving ease.  Now with all the Dream On females going back into the herd as replacements (we save 40-50 heifers a year for replacements) we are going to Grandmaster for those Dream On's first babies.  Otherwise, have used the Duff bulls for first calf heifers also.  With a large number of Dream On females kept as replacements for the past 4 years, we do have a number of them in production and they perform very well; fertility has been equal to the other sire groups and their calves are very good.

One of the cornerstones of the breed that gets no recognition is Nichol's Legacy....I had used alot of Nichol's Legacy back before there ever was a Dream On (Legacy is Dream On's sire) and loved those Legacy females that we put back into production into the herd.  Then  Dream On came out and he worked so well also, so used alot of him.  Now we have a herd bull that we use for clean up that is sired by Nichol's Legacy that has been siring amazing babies...they are showy, they are easy calving, they grow very well.  The granddaddy of them all is Legacy; he has the most influence in our herd than any other Simmi bull there is.