Angus Pedigree containing 7000+ unique ancestors

[Jack]

Hi folks,  I have just posted a list on our site of the 7001 animals we have identified in the pedigree of Broken Arrow Kaptain Midnight.

The file is in PDF format (585 Kb) and can be downloaded from http://linebrederica.com/

We hope to finish out 'mapping'  by July by the time the bull turns 13.

If anyone has any pre-1940 US, Canadian, New Zealand or Scottish (Aberdeen) Angus Herd Books and would like to assist us identifying the remaining animals, please feel free to volunteer  ;D

Regards

Jack

 

[red]

Glad you are back!

Red (welcome)

 

[aj]

Fill me in a little more on the deal. When were the first scotch cattle imported to North America. I have heard that the angus, durhams and hereferds were used on the longhorn cattle in say the 1875's. When did they get to the u.s.? Does the Dunlouise Cortcy boy bull in the genetic horizons book goe to erica? Doesn't Ohlde linebred Erica's. Thaks in advance.

 

[Jack]

Hi AJ

Shorthorns imported into North America circa 1783
Herefords entered circa 1817
Aberdeen-Angus circa 1873

Re: Does the Dunlouise Cortcy boy bull in the genetic horizons book goe to erica? I have not heard of this animal - if you can advise what of its breeding you know I can get back to you

Likewise, I am unaware of "Ohlde" - again, any further advice on this matter would help

Regards

Jack

 

[Jack]

Glad you are back!

Red (welcome)

and from what I read, we are all glad you are back as well  (clapping)

JR

 

[red]

Jack- did you go by ozraptor before?

Red

 

[Jack]

Yes ma'am

Catastrophic computer failure = loss of logins

Regards

Jack - aka (Ozraptor - the Lizard of Oz)

 

[dori36]

Hi folks,  I have just posted a list on our site of the 7001 animals we have identified in the pedigree of Broken Arrow Kaptain Midnight.

The file is in PDF format (585 Kb) and can be downloaded from http://linebrederica.com/

We hope to finish out 'mapping'  by July by the time the bull turns 13.

If anyone has any pre-1940 US, Canadian, New Zealand or Scottish (Aberdeen) Angus Herd Books and would like to assist us identifying the remaining animals, please feel free to volunteer  ;D

Regards

Jack

Is this the same "Broken Arrow Kaptain Midnight" registered in the Australian Lowline Cattle Registry as # AULM574 and sired by AULM0055 Trangie M432  Knight Crawler?

 

[Jack]

Hi D36

Yes, it is the same animal.  He is still with Bell Brae Stud in Victoria. He is 13 years old this year and was used by both Bell Brae and BA last year.

Regards

Jack

 

[P-F]

Hi AJ

Shorthorns imported into North America circa 1783
Herefords entered circa 1817
Aberdeen-Angus circa 1873

Re: Does the Dunlouise Cortcy boy bull in the genetic horizons book goe to erica? I have not heard of this animal - if you can advise what of its breeding you know I can get back to you

Likewise, I am unaware of "Ohlde" - again, any further advice on this matter would help

Regards

Jack

Dunlouise is a herd in Scotland that is supposed to have the last pure Scottish Angus in the World.
http://www.kingstonfrm.freeserve.co.uk/Aboutus.htm


Tim Ohlde breeds easy fleshing moderate Angus cattle
http://www.ohldecattle.com/

I do own one cow that on the traces back to Old Jock and Beauty on the cow side
AAA#13017376, I found it pretty cool.  However it probably isn't very uniqe


Hope this info helps

 

[aj]

Are the old stlye scotch bred cattle like a frame 5 normally? Are the scotch angus more similar to lowlines then todays mammoth plus 99 yw epd cattle in the U.S? Were the lowline cattle developed only in australia(home of Fosters beer)? I think 6807 type angus are pretty pure Angus. Whats in this for you? Is semen available on the 13 year old bull you are talking about? Does it really matter cause the rich guys always get the good looking girls(just kidding). ))

 

[garybob]

Are the old stlye scotch bred cattle like a frame 5 normally? Are the scotch angus more similar to lowlines then todays mammoth plus 99 yw epd cattle in the U.S? Were the lowline cattle developed only in australia(home of Fosters beer)? I think 6807 type angus are pretty pure Angus. Whats in this for you? Is semen available on the 13 year old bull you are talking about? Does it really matter cause the rich guys always get the good looking girls(just kidding). ))

Don't you think with the "ethanol" thing, that 99 YEPD cattle (Freightliner, Dateline) are, as we say, "outta here"?

 

[dori36]

Hi D36

Yes, it is the same animal.  He is still with Bell Brae Stud in Victoria. He is 13 years old this year and was used by both Bell Brae and BA last year.

Regards

Jack

I just sold a Lowline cow sired by Bell Brae Boris Bel.  She was the epitome of the "Erica" cow.  I think her sire makes her a grandaughter of Kaptain Midnight.

 

[Jack]

Dunlouise is a herd in Scotland that is supposed to have the last pure Scottish Angus in the World.
http://www.kingstonfrm.freeserve.co.uk/Aboutus.htm


Tim Ohlde breeds easy fleshing moderate Angus cattle
http://www.ohldecattle.com/

I do own one cow that on the traces back to Old Jock and Beauty on the cow side
AAA#13017376, I found it pretty cool.  However it probably isn't very uniqe


Hope this info helps

Thank you for the links - I did google Ohlde and found their site - will check the other one out now.  All Angus trace back to Old Jock and Beauty and probably all of Watson's and M'Combies cattle is some way to varying degrees - you may be surprised how many times.  The important thing is, to Greg Rhodes' way of thinking, does it still have and pass on the 'traditional' Watson Angus traits.  Longjevity, fertility, fine bone, short hair, good milking ability and the ability to 'run on the smell of an oily rag'. Oce again thanks for the leads - Jack

 

[Jack]

Are the old stlye scotch bred cattle like a frame 5 normally? Are the scotch angus more similar to lowlines then todays mammoth plus 99 yw epd cattle in the U.S? Were the lowline cattle developed only in australia(home of Fosters beer)? I think 6807 type angus are pretty pure Angus. Whats in this for you? Is semen available on the 13 year old bull you are talking about? Does it really matter cause the rich guys always get the good looking girls(just kidding). ))

Hi AJ - I'm sorry i don't know much about cows, cept they have 4 legs and Moo - I am more comfortable with computers (that don't crash) databases and history. I don't think lowlines were 'developed' per se - they were the by-product of a single trait selection exercise that allowed a great degree of 'variability' to manifest itself. Greg has been trying to breed this variability out so as to obtain an even line of predictable cattle. He feels he has got there as much as he can and is now taking them (this week they ship)  back to his brother's farm on Flinders Island - (Tasmania) to start trials with cross-breedoing commercial cattle.  There is no licensed Midnight semen available to my knowledge. Plenty was given away in the 90's to test him over other cows in other herds. Greg has only kept one of his bull calves as a replacement sire who will start breeding this year.  Midnight produces better daughters than sons in Greg's opinion.

I don't have a clue what 6807 cattle are - American I presume ;-). and there is a lot of Canadian/American blood in Midnight via Earl Marshall and his sons etc. What's in it for me? Other than the fact that I like Greg and consider him to be a good mate, I like doing jigsaws - and this one is quite challenging I can tell you ;-). I don't think anyone has attempted to do something as ambitious as this and I would like to be the one who pulls it off ;-)  Hope this clarifies something.

Regards Jack

PS - I would like to be a rich guy too ;-)

 

[Jack]

I just sold a Lowline cow sired by Bell Brae Boris Bel.  She was the epitome of the "Erica" cow.  I think her sire makes her a grandaughter of Kaptain Midnight.

Hi again D36

If you want to send me the reg number or pedigree details of your cow, I am happy to add it into our database and see what comes up   There are a lot of 'Erica-type' cows throughout the Angus breed I suspect as the Watson cattle were bred to be this.  The reason the genetics are so strong within the Trangie Angus herd is, I understand, the fact that their animals came through so few studs - Ballindalloch to Glencarnock and Harviestoun to Trangie and all these concentrated on developing the Ericas.  Secondly, the single trait selection trials at Trangie provided a supportive environment for those animals that would never be high growth large animals.  It was fortunate perhaps that Trangie 'threw the babby out with the bathwater' when they got rid of the Low Line experimental animals.

Regards

Jack

 

[Jack]

Hi folks - I have found a picture of Arrow Kaptain Midnight from an old Broken Arrow brochure, and have uploaded it fyi.

My buest geuss is that he was about 19 months old at the time.

The link is here: http://www.linebrederica.com/files/Midnight300dpi.jpg

Regards

Jack

 

[showsteerdlux]

Gosh now thats what you call short.

 

[Jack]

I guess so ;-)

But he has good growth rates for a heifer's first calf ;-)

His growth chart is here: http://www.linebrederica.com/midnight.html

Regards

Jack

 

[TJ]

^ For a fullblood Lowline bull, out of a 1st calf heifer, that's a pretty good yearling weight.  Thanks for sharing the picture!  I don't know if I've ever seen a picture of Kaptain Midnight before. 

7,000+ ancestors is very impressive too!  You are doing a phenominal job pedigree hunting & compiling all the data!! 


BTW, I kinda like this link to the Erica website...

http://www.linebrederica.com/pedigrees/Duke_FM4219.html     ;D


Here is a link to quite a few other Erica pedigrees on Jack's site...

http://www.linebrederica.com/pedigrees/index.html