Any one Good With PhotoShop???

[Doc]

  Hey JIT, if you don't let me join your cult , does that hurt my chances of ever becoming a member of The Mafia?

 

[knabe]

more than likely your animal is not going to win, and it's not going to get that much exposure. 

i thought showing was about showing.  if one doesn't get enough exposure from winning, one could simply place an ad.

Often, the sweeter the first fruit of a habit, the more bitter are its later fruits: for example, debauchery, sloth, prodigality. When a man is impressed by the effect that is seen and has not yet learned to discern the effects that are not seen, he indulges in deplorable habits, not only through natural inclination, but deliberately.  (bastiat)

the quicker the breed is ruined, the quicker one should be able to resurrect it and take advantage of opportunities.  line breeding should seem like an appropriate direction.

 

[simtal]

The thing a lot of you people on here keep failing to realize is that the breeding decisions you are making is hurting commercial shorthorn breeders like myself. 

It's hard to win over commercial acceptance with the shorthorn breed, and it's not so much because of hide color alone, it's due to what I've heard out of the mouth of other commercial cattlemen such as this:  "I'm not interested in purchasing a shorthorn.  They are a dying breed, because of birth weights and TH/PHA.  Besides, shorthorns are a show breed anyway."  I've been in the cattle business for 30 years now, and I have heard the same type of comments from other commercial breeders over and over again.  What's even worse, is that I am now hearing these same type of negative comments more often these days no thanks to clubby genetics, and yes a lot of the commercial breeders are blaming it on club calf genetics.  Many of commercial breeders think that a shorthorn cow is a clubby animal with no commercial appeal period.  That is what I am talking about.  A lot of them are saying the same thing about the Shorthorn Breed as a whole.  The cattle are not good enough to be commercially accepted because, "Shorthorns are a show breed only". 

I realize the show ring gives exposure to the breed, but the problem is that most show ring genetics are not functional or commercially acceptable.  Unless your animal is sired by Trump, Sonny, Double Vision/Stuff or any other popular mainstream animal that is sired by or related to the bulls that I just mentioned, more than likely your animal is not going to win, and it's not going to get that much exposure.  If your animal is sired by "Big Boy Henry (A bull that is lower profiled that does not have the big names in his genetics)"  it more than likely will not win no matter how good that animal is or how good it looks.  The heifer that was sired by "Big Boy Henry" may very well be the best animal that was in the show and still lose.  Animals like that do not lose because the other animals that won were better than the "Big Boy Henry" daughter.  The reason why the other heifers or bulls won had to do with popularity, money, and politics along with the name of the farm prefix and biased one sided judges.  Take your low profiled animal that is not sired by the popular mainstream animals to Louisville and see what happens.  Once again I will state that I have no interest in the show ring, and I have never shown any of my cattle before.  However, I know of other folks who have and I cannot tell you how many times their animals came in last all because they were not part of the mafia's click or they didn't have the popular names of certain animals in their pedigree or the right farm prefix. 

Let's face facts people.  The shorthorn breed in the United States is controlled by a select group of people who have tons of money.  They are often referred to as the Mafia.  Those same folks do not want diversity in the shorthorn breed, and a lot of the smaller show breeders think by using popular AI Sires that are produced by these popular breeders (The Mafia) and if they stack certain animals and prefixes in their pedigrees that the Mafia will take notice, and accept other smaller breeders into their click for producing those genetics.  It does not work that way, and I've known of several others who have tried it in the past, and they ended up wasting their money and getting screwed in the end. 

It's not the show ring that I have a problem with, it's the genetics that are popular in the show ring that I have a problem with.  The playing field is not fair.  If other Non-Trump, Non-Sonny, Non-DoubleStuff/Vision animals (that are not related to the bulls that I just mentioned) are not allowed to win shows and get the same popularity then the playing field in the show ring is not fair.  Try taking a really good looking animal that is sired by some low profiled bull that it not related to, or has absolutely no Trump, Sonny, Double Stuff/Vision in it's pedigree or some animal that has mostly Australian genetics in it's pedigree to a show.  Put it up against several females that are sired by Trump or Sonny and see what happens.  It will not win because it does not have the right genetics, names of popular bulls, or certain farm prefixes in it's pedigree. 

People talk about not lumping all genetics together and saying "they are all bad", however what many of you can't seem to get through your heads is that when people make bad breeding decisions just for the sake of huge profits and personal gain, it hurts the whole entire industry as a whole.  Call me crazy, or what ever you like, however I would much rather produce and sell a $1500 cow over a 20 or $30K animal any day of the week.  You know why?  Because producing good quality and functionally sound animals is more important to me.  I would rather do something that produces good quality and proven livestock that improves the breed on a genetic level instead of chasing after big profits.  I am more interested in producing good shorthorn animals  instead of making huge profits alone.  I refuse to sacrifice the breed or certain animals just for the sake of personal gain. 

People on here can get mad all that want, and I may seem like a peon to most of you, however be assured that I am not alone in the way I feel.  I will say that JIT is a smart cookie, and he does have a lot of knowledge, wisdom, and experience in this business, however I know of several others who have just as much experience in raising shorthorns over the past 50 years who would back up my claim on any given day.  These same folks also do not like these clubby genetics and they also feel like it is hurting the whole entire breed as a whole.  A lot of commercial cattlemen don't want anything to do with the Shorthorn Breed because of the reputation it has. 

Considering that most people who post on here are show people, I understand why a lot of you really do not care about how it hurts commercial people like myself, because you are not a commercial breeder and it does not affect you if you are show ring oriented only.  So why should any of you show people care as long as you make a huge profit while you sacrifice the shorthorn breed and ruin good functional feminine cows by creating steery and clubby junk.  I don't think a lot of you who post on here have any idea how the Shorthorn Breed has gotten a bad reputation over the years and how commercial shorthorn breeders like myself are having to suffer for it.  Some of you live in a bubble and are too busy keeping up with what the Jones' are raising. 

I fail to see why we cannot have commercial animals that are not related to the big name bulls such as Trump, Sonny, and Double Stuff/Vision that are known for being feminine and productive as good show animals also.  Like I said, most of the show animals (not all) that we see today may win the big shows, and bring home the purple, however most of them will never be good producers once they are turned out to pasture unless we start using different genetics that are proven and commercially acceptable.  The only reason why we can't have it both ways is because certain shorthorn breeders don't want it to be that way.  That is a fact.
  I believe the current club calf industry, as we currently know it, is going to one day crash and burn. 

Few comments:

The club calf industry will never die because primary source of income from the buyers of these calves is non-farm related.  The cattle industry has always and will always be, bimodal. 

While it would be unfortunate, if the shorthorn breed was erased from the US cattle population, the beef industry would suffer little.  Why? Because the shorthorn assoc has no  performance leg to stand on. The big breeds with the best marketing avenues and continued emphasis on performance testing will always win.  Changing perception is hard to do, but it can be done.  Look at Simmys.  Cattle for years known as hard doing, cow killers are not so today.  One thing that really hurts shorthorns is the MARC reports.  Already science has turned its back.  Throw in breed marketing schemes, which shorthorn has none, and that adds to the demise.  The  fact that shorthorns aren't black is really detrimental. 

Not trying to crack a joke here but, would a producer receive a dock, premium or fair price for a group of shorthorn colored calves,out popular shorthorn bulls, that had similar health protocols to other calves?  At a big market(joplin, superior)?

This "Mafia" idea is no different in other breeds.  Look at Angus.

 

[farmboy]

i kinda am

 

[Losin Money]

I can settle the good shorthorn vs bad shorthorn right now.  My son and daughter are both wanting to show a shorthorn.  Im not sure why since we have all black cattle!  However, both of you send me a shorthorn (I may even pick them up for you!) and my kids will show all winter in the BEST show circuit. At the end of the year we'll see who has the best shorthorn!  It wont cost you a thing and bragging rights are on the line.  Any takers???

 

[justme]

I guess its my time to pipe up.  My definition of a superior cow (any breed) is the cow that makes me money.  I don't care if she's out in rugged terrain, or in my showbarn.  Make me money and she's successful.
Bottom line is the almighty dollar.  Granted I have my softspots for some cows but if they don't produce they go to the sale barn.

I certainly don't think my cows have to live in the "wilderness".  I have the luxury of not having that.  I'm not a "cowboy" so to say.  BUT, my cows have to function on grass and the hilly terrain of Missouri.

I think this post is way out of hand...I don't understand how all of a sudden we get at each others throats.  Time to sit back and start thinking of some respect.  We raise showstock and do sell some seedstock.  I have no desire to saddle up and round up cattle like they did in the old west.  I like what we do.  BUT I do respect the ranchers that do it.  I don't find myself looking at my neighbors cattle and thinking they have inferior cattle, and I don't think they look at us thinking were nuts doing the show thing.  They sure do like buying my PB bulls and I like there checks.  So in a nutshell were different but we need mutual respect.  The Truth...I know you mean well  but maybe a little respect to others and wording your posts a little different would get everyone to calm down.  I've been on here a long time, and the people all jazzed up are usually the quiet level headed ones.  (Just think if the hotheads got on ya).  We welcome everyone on this board as long as they follow a couple simple rules, and respect each other.

 

[knabe]

I'm talking about a place where the grass quality is poor and the animals have to survive on thistle and prickly pears and poor soil quality that has rough and rocky ground. 

this sounds like what some want to do to the american economy by restricting energy options and redistributing success.

perhaps if we turned that statement around, would the one's who excel in the desert, do good in area's where there is 40+ inches rain/year?

we will probably find out that excelling in either environment has little to do with genes and phenotype and more to do with methylation than we ever imagined.

 

[DLD]

The show ring does not nor, will it prove "Who has the best shorthorn".   

The true test would be to take one of my animals and someone else's clubby animal and take them to a place where the conditions are extremely harsh and the terrain is extremely rugged and hilly.   I'm talking about a place where the grass quality is poor and the animals have to survive on thistle and prickly pears and poor soil quality that has rough and rocky ground.   Plus they cannot have any grain period.   

Once both of these animals have been in those harsh conditions for quiet sometime, the one that is able to still function, and maintain it's condition along with not falling apart will be the best shorthorn.

That is how you find out who has the best shorthorn.   Not through the Show Ring. 

Maybe what you're wanting is more of a Longhorn than a Shorthorn.

Even every commercial breeder doesn't need cattle that are geared to perform in the conditions that you describe.  Most commercial breeders actually raise cattle with weird things like improved grasses and even (gasp!) protein supplements... But I guess those things would be wasted on your kind of cattle.

I really do understand that you're trying to make a point here that you don't think show cattle are functional  - we get it (that doesn't mean we agree, but we get it) .  If you're coming here to try and make converts,  I'm pretty sure you're S.O.L.  (that's smooth outta luck).  If you're coming here to make friends,  you're goin' about it all wrong.  If you're just here to stir the pot,  congratulations - you're doin' a great job.

Folks, if we want our peace and quiet back - stop feeding the troll!

 

[farwest]

the truth, man, what you been smoking, heavy duty for sure,  who wants to raise cattle in prickly pears, rocks, n cactus on a mountain slope,    what u want to be more broke than u are already. I've watched this thread n this is my opinion.  what this is all about is you are jealous your not in the business,  jump in, have some fun,      don't graze cattle on a mountain side,  watch the big videos,  they don't bring the money.  ask some of these fine people how to get u started, i'm sure they will be glad to help,    don't pe a pessimist just cause your not in on the fun.  i've seen your kind.              oh boy here we go           
                                                                       

 

[bcosu]

i was wondering, how can a judge tell what bull a shorthorn heifer is out of in the ring. i'm pretty sure that if a heifer sired by a "Low profiled" bull looks like what a judge wants to use then he would use her. granted there are politics involved but judges have different tastes. as for the pasture thing, that sounds like somebody who shouldn't be in the cattle business. then impression on me is that someone doesn't care about their cattle. at least you can intensively graze by rotating pastures so you don't have to worry about eating thistles. if you don't have that much grass, then sell some cows to another person. just my opinion.

 

[Losin Money]

I guess that means I don't get a free shorthorn.  Shucks I was all excited.  Thats okay though, the shorthorn class is way too tough for me.

 

[ELBEE]

I can settle the good shorthorn vs bad shorthorn right now.  My son and daughter are both wanting to show a shorthorn.  Im not sure why since we have all black cattle!  However, both of you send me a shorthorn (I may even pick them up for you!) and my kids will show all winter in the BEST show circuit. At the end of the year we'll see who has the best shorthorn!  It wont cost you a thing and bragging rights are on the line.  Any takers???

Absolutely, when can you come by? I'll even deliver!

 

[M Bar]

Gotta chime in on this, too fun to not be a part of it.  The truth, you are more than welcome to look at shorthorns that have zero (o) influence of the genetics that you seem to hate.  Heck, they are everywhere, you just can't look for them in ads in the shorthorn country.  If you think that politics and mafia's only exist in the shorthorn aisle, then you need to look around the barn some more.  Go play in the angus barn and see what happens.  Commercial cow-calf producers see genetic value in shorthorns, they just don't know where to go to find them.  I would suggest going to NCBA and putting up a table to showcase what you have.  taking your calves to the salebarn is OK, but try sometime to contract your cattle to a feedyard and have them see the value at the bunk, on the rail, and on the grid.  In my opinion, to strengthen the amount of shorthorn genetics that are marketed a year, we need to work backwards from the meat counter, to the packer, to the feedlot, to the backgrounder, to the cow calf producer.  If the feedyard/backgrounder feels that shorthorn genetics will make them money, due to the packer wanting shorthorn influenced carcasses, then the cow/calf producer will come looking for us.  That, little buddy, doesn't happen overnight.  Sell an shorthorn bull to an angus influenced commercial herd, get black calves that hit CAB and grid premiums, and see who shows up at your door looking for another bull.  This may seem like a real loooong shot, but we have purebred angus folks buying semen to use on their low end cows to make F1's.  Those little 1/2 bloods sell like hot cakes around us.  Yes we do show, and found that most folks have never seen a shorthorn/angus cross.  Easiest sell I ever made was to a large angus producer (600 cows) when he saw the value of this cross.  You can either lurk around and blame all that is bad with the shorthorn breed, or stand the guard and make a difference. 

 

[farmboy]

/thread

 

[Tx Black Steer]

TheTruth,
  One time you are talking about how the showring cattle is hurting you and how everybody don't want anything to do with your cattle because of these terrible showring qualities.  Then the next you are talking about all the big time cattle people who love your type cattle.  I think you should just find these people who love your cattle and sell to them.  If there is sooo many of you that hate these showcattle then you should be o.k. and have nothing to cry about!  If your cattle are so great then they will be here years from now and the other cattle will long gone.  Another words live and let live!

 

[Bawndoh]

                                                                         
[/quote]

You're clueless, and you have no idea what you are even talking about.  You've probably never seen a shorthorn outside of the show ring.
 


[/quote]

Thats a pretty bold statement to say to anybody.  The Truth, You are about 2000 SP members against yourself.  Why are you on here?  How did you find SP?  Why didnt you start a thread where you could talk all about yourself instead of hijacking a Photoshop thread to do it?  Come on...we want to hear more.  You are one of the most outrageous people I have ever read about...its so intreaguing to hear about what 2000 SP members are doing wrong and YOU are doing right!  <cowboy>

 

[farwest]

i've been informed the truth is a troll, and we are all feeding him,  please moderater cancel the thread, stop the feeding.

 

[red]

The hubby brought me some homemade ice cream from the Amish so I have my second wind back.

I am locking this thread. I doubt it will do any good since other threads have also been hijacked to further personal agendas.

Red- shaking her head at the immaturity of some of them members!