Aubrac cattle

[FCCO]

Longer ago someone was asking about Aubrac cattle on here. I just thought I would post a pic of a typical Angus/Aubrac heifer calf from our program. The Aubracs are extremely forage efficient, but traditionally ugly and horned. We have a page of Aubrac Herd sires at www.fickecattle.com to find out more info.

 

[OLD WORLD SHORTIE]

traditionally ugly and horned

Haha how do you judge for ugly?  i know sticking to the breed characteristics, but come on. Ive seen some ugly cows, wonder how much Aubrac they have in them.
pretty cool though

 

[Telos]

Nice website. Interesting breed with a history of adapting to a harsh environment.

I was the one asking about the Aubrac's. Ugly is up for interpretation and think they look extremely functional for much of Noth America.

They appear to be very correctly structured. Was wondering about their attitude and anything else you don't like about them?

 

[FCCO]

Thanks for the nice comments. Now everyone can see why I don't get anywhere in this business, when I tell you what I don't like first! Honestly the Aubracs are a very unique breed. I started using them 6-7 years ago to add to my composite program. I have had around 800 Aubrac sired calves at this location, plus many more at cooperator type herds. The French like them course made and sloppy fronted (things I can't stand) but their color is pretty cool, there are very forage efficient (many times eating the poorer grass or weeds first), they calve easy and have a bunch of vigor, much like the Salers. Also, they have some of the best tasting meat. You don't need to have a very high % of Aubrac in an animal to achieve the advantages of the breed.

Their faults...certain bloodlines have disposition problems, the breed is horned, and their color in a commodity type setting are my only concerns. By intensive culling and making them polled and a solid color (which you can retain the solid color until they get around 50%, then the Aubrac markings start taking over, but the polled gene sticks) you have a unique maternal product that is an awesome base to build a program around. Sorry for the long reply!

 

[BadgerFan]

Longer ago someone was asking about Aubrac cattle on here. I just thought I would post a pic of a typical Angus/Aubrac heifer calf from our program. The Aubracs are extremely forage efficient, but traditionally ugly and horned. We have a page of Aubrac Herd sires at www.fickecattle.com to find out more info.

No disrespect intended, but to me this hybrid female only reaffirms that the Angus female (black or red) is by far the most versatile breeding piece on earth.  They mate well with Simmentals, Gelbviehs, Maines, Limousins, Herefords, Charolais, Salers, Brahman, Aubracs...

 

[FCCO]

None taken! And I agree that "flat out" the Angus breed, either red or black compliments any breed used on them. I have tried many breeds in my composite/hybrid program as a base and Angus is the King! Unfortunately straight bred cattle (of any breed) cannot compete with the economic advantages of the crossbred cow, therefore working extremely well in commercial, low input operations. I wonder where the Corn industry would be today without the use of the hybrid concept, we most likely would not have enough corn to come close to meeting our domestic needs, let alone any global markets. Great point on the Angus!

 

[TJ]

Longer ago someone was asking about Aubrac cattle on here. I just thought I would post a pic of a typical Angus/Aubrac heifer calf from our program. The Aubracs are extremely forage efficient, but traditionally ugly and horned. We have a page of Aubrac Herd sires at www.fickecattle.com to find out more info.

No disrespect intended, but to me this hybrid female only reaffirms that the Angus female (black or red) is by far the most versatile breeding piece on earth.  They mate well with Simmentals, Gelbviehs, Maines, Limousins, Herefords, Charolais, Salers, Brahman, Aubracs...

Really depends upon the definition of Angus.  If you are talking Oldhe type stuff, Lowline & even some lines like TC Stockman, I'd agree that they do cross well with most anything.  But, in my opinion, I would not call all Angus or Red Angus king of anything.  Especially the 1,800-2,200 lb. Angus cows that look like they are part Holstein and/or Chiangus, etc.

 

[FCCO]

Yup TJ, I totally agree the type of Angus makes a difference. That's what I'm raising and they work well in a commercial setting and in our composite/hybrid programs. Certainly the right fit for what I'm doing. Many of our crossbred Angus based cows are in the 1050 to 1150 weight range. You and I have chatted in the past and I think we are on the same page.

 

[BadgerFan]

No disrespect intended, but to me this hybrid female only reaffirms that the Angus female (black or red) is by far the most versatile breeding piece on earth.  They mate well with Simmentals, Gelbviehs, Maines, Limousins, Herefords, Charolais, Salers, Brahman, Aubracs...

Really depends upon the definition of Angus.  If you are talking Oldhe type stuff, Lowline & even some lines like TC Stockman, I'd agree that they do cross well with most anything.  But, in my opinion, I would not call all Angus or Red Angus king of anything.  Especially the 1,800-2,200 lb. Angus cows that look like they are part Holstein and/or Chiangus, etc.

I challenge you to name a breed with cows that cross well with more different types of bulls than the Angus breed.
Interesting to see TC Stockman 365 put in the same category with Lowlines.

 

[Telos]

Whatever breed is king, one thing for sure, those Aubrac offers some new genetics. They do have a great look to them, IMO.

Are there bulls that help with the disposition better then some others?  What is their color out of a straight bred Angus cow?  Is it sometimes greyish or always black?

Those calves on your Hybrid Section are plain awesome (Planeteers need to give them a look). Do you have semen on that Legend son?  He looks amazing.

 

[FCCO]

Thanks for the compliments and questions, Telos! I think a lot of the hot dispositions were from a few of the original French bulls imported in the 70's and the fact that people kept keeping offspring and just dealing with it. I don't have any problems with calves out of my herd bulls or cows in our herd now, but it took a bunch of culling. The coloring on an Angus cow is nearly all the time a brownish black, but sometimes you still get jet black. As I mentioned above, when you get over the 50% Aubrac, the natural coloring starts coming through.

The Legend son Masher...I have blessed to own a bull of his magnitude. I bought him to steer and try to resell him, but the more I looked him over I thought I would take a chance to keep him as a bull. He was the shaggiest bull I had been around and a total pet to handle. I feel he is the best bull I have used to date of any breed. I am planning on collecting him after this breeding season, but did not have those plans until a bunch of people that have seem him and more so his calves and convinced me. My plans are to offer the top half of his heifer calves this Fall (about 10) and I will have a few really cool bull calves also. I can't remember if it says on our website, but he is out of a Man in Black daughter that a kid in our county showed from Wagonhammer.

If I have the correct pics attached, they should be of a Masher heifer calf at 3 weeks old and then again at around 3 months old. This heifer would be out of a 3 way Red Composite cow (Hereford, Red Angus, Gelbvieh).

 

[Telos]

FCCO. That was an error on my part regarding their appearance (sorry). I think they look great. Good to know about the disposition. High heredibility corrects that in a hurry.

The feet and leg design looks particularly nice on these Aubrac's and I know they evolved in rough terrain. Question? Are there any unseen (negetive)  issues with some of these genetics?

Those pics look really good. This is my opinion of a Value Oriented  program in offering some new genetics. Good to know there are some thinking out of the box.

 

[FCCO]

LOL-no problem Telos! In fact one thing I know for certain with this breed is people either love um or hate um, no in between. I have had the chance to watch more than a 1000 Aubracs and % Aubracs "move out". I have seen my share of ugly Aubracs, but I have never seen one that had any problems moving. One of my goals back when I was looking at this breed, besides adding them to my composite program, was to build a base of functional, free moving, prolific females to try some clubbys on. Time will tell on this, but the few I have had have been exactly what I was hoping for. I have an old high school buddy that moved to Texas several years ago that is really keeping an eye on the Aubracs for the way they move, muscling type, and perhaps some different coloring for the slick shear deal. You might know of Dave Allan from Bar A Ranch?? You and Dave also have the same opinion on the Legend bull we have, as a few weeks ago I sent Dave several pics and received a call before he had looked at them all to find out the deal on this bull!

I can't for see any genetic issues coming up. I do know that of all the calves I have had, I have had zero genetics defects and have only assisted two at birth.

We will be sending a really good Aubrac bull to Rosanky, Texas in a month or so for a gentleman to use one Angus and Brangus cows. This should be a good fit.

I am also looking for one or two more good people to market Aubrac semen (and soon Angus Hybrid and Red Angus semen), especially down your way...

 

[TJ]

Yup TJ, I totally agree the type of Angus makes a difference. That's what I'm raising and they work well in a commercial setting and in our composite/hybrid programs. Certainly the right fit for what I'm doing. Many of our crossbred Angus based cows are in the 1050 to 1150 weight range. You and I have chatted in the past and I think we are on the same page.

Hi, Del.  If we aren't on the same page, it's close enough. 

Btw, if you ever want to mix it up, you might consider crossing your Aurbacs with Murray Grey or White Park or some real good baldies or Devon.    South Devon, Galloway, Irish Blacks or even Highlands could also work with the right genetics.  All depends upon the market that you are targeting & what you want your hybrids to excel at the most.

 

[FCCO]

Morning TJ! I have been trying to work out my trips for a couple years to stop by and go through your program. I have a gentleman in Kentucky that is very interested in purchasing heifers from me for Fall delivery. If that happens, I am planning on giving you a call to set up a time to stop by. I would be very interested to see the breeds you are working with and how they might fit into my program. Every breed has something good to offer, my goal is to figure out what breeds work the best together to accomplish my goal of "Building the perfect Beast"! You take care.

 

[TJ]

Arguing about what breed would cross better would be like us fighting over which conference is king in college football.  Obviously, it's the SEC, IMHO, but I somehow get the feeling that you would not agree.  I could even bring up all of the consecutive championships that the SEC has won (and the last time they didn't undefeated Auburn got robbed because they didn't get to play for the title, IMHO), but would that settle the debate?  Probably not.  Same principle  applies here

I will say this... Type is MUCH more important than breed. 1,800 - 2,200 lb. cows are just as much the wrong type as is a Texas Longhorn.  However, if you gave me a choice, I'd pick the Longhorns because atleast they would not bankrupt me with feed bills. 

Regarding comparing Lowlines & TC Stockman... No, I didn't.  All I did was say that both cross well.  I guess you can compare them if you want to though, since both have papers tracing their ancestry back to Scotland.  But, it would be interesting to see a DNA test performed that would determine which is the more pure Angus of the 2.  Irregardless, I saw TC Stockman as a 2 year old & he had a lot of positives going for him.  Very nice made bull, if you like bigger cattle.  Of all the modern Angus that I've seen, his bloodline is superior in type, IMHO, even though he does have Pine Drive Big Sky back in his gene pool.  But, we had low percentage, thick butted, moderate framed chi bulls that crossed well with most anything too, so it's not surprising that TC Stockman crosses well, if that is what you are looking for. 

No disrespect intended, but to me this hybrid female only reaffirms that the Angus female (black or red) is by far the most versatile breeding piece on earth.  They mate well with Simmentals, Gelbviehs, Maines, Limousins, Herefords, Charolais, Salers, Brahman, Aubracs...

Really depends upon the definition of Angus.  If you are talking Oldhe type stuff, Lowline & even some lines like TC Stockman, I'd agree that they do cross well with most anything.  But, in my opinion, I would not call all Angus or Red Angus king of anything.  Especially the 1,800-2,200 lb. Angus cows that look like they are part Holstein and/or Chiangus, etc.

I challenge you to name a breed with cows that cross well with more different types of bulls than the Angus breed.
Interesting to see TC Stockman 365 put in the same category with Lowlines.

 

[Telos]

LOL-no problem Telos! In fact one thing I know for certain with this breed is people either love um or hate um, no in between. I have had the chance to watch more than a 1000 Aubracs and % Aubracs "move out". I have seen my share of ugly Aubracs, but I have never seen one that had any problems moving. One of my goals back when I was looking at this breed, besides adding them to my composite program, was to build a base of functional, free moving, prolific females to try some clubbys on. Time will tell on this, but the few I have had have been exactly what I was hoping for. I have an old high school buddy that moved to Texas several years ago that is really keeping an eye on the Aubracs for the way they move, muscling type, and perhaps some different coloring for the slick shear deal. You might know of Dave Allan from Bar A Ranch?? You and Dave also have the same opinion on the Legend bull we have, as a few weeks ago I sent Dave several pics and received a call before he had looked at them all to find out the deal on this bull!

I can't for see any genetic issues coming up. I do know that of all the calves I have had, I have had zero genetics defects and have only assisted two at birth.

We will be sending a really good Aubrac bull to Rosanky, Texas in a month or so for a gentleman to use one Angus and Brangus cows. This should be a good fit.

I am also looking for one or two more good people to market Aubrac semen (and soon Angus Hybrid and Red Angus semen), especially down your way...

It's also good to see Allen and Rosanky thinking this way. About three years ago I came across these Aubrac's and thought they might really work both for the show ring and just great functional cattle. Really like that Legend son. Again, is there semen available? LOL....

 

[TJ]

If you could visit, that would be great!  I need some good eyes to critique my cattle & tell me what I need to improve upon.  I like hearing input from others & learning something new.  You might be in shock when you see just how "commercial" our operation is.  The only white fence that you would see is the neighbors place & it makes our cattle operation look like an inner city slum.  But, I kinda like it that way.  I am a big fan of low maintenance!  LOL!! 

The North American (Louisville) is in November, so that might be another excuse to make the drive.  Actually, fall would likely work well.  I'm switching to fall calving, so I should have some pairs to look at.  I bred one herd to a Lowline X Red Angus bull that I raised & it will be really interesting to see how those calves turnout, especially the ones out of my Lowline X Tarentaise females.  I sold him though, as I plan to use a 3/4 Lowline X 1/4 Tarentaise bull & a 3/4 Lowline X 1/8 Shorthorn X 1/8 Angus bull in his place.  Rather than halfbloods, I want to see what 5/8 Lowline calves will do.  Who knows, you might want to try a Lowline bull on your Aubrac heifers.  I think that cross could be pretty interesting.  If you like marbling, I will have semen this fall on 2 Lowline bulls that are over +70 on the MMI DNA test.  The average steer that grade high choice, out 19,000 feedlot animals tested, only averaged +21.  One was the Res. National Champion Bull Calf, sired by Doc Holliday & out of a Boris daugter that I flushed.  I hope to collect some others, but I haven't had then tested yet.

One of these days I want to visit some customers in your area & I will try to stop by & check out your herd.  It would be interesting to see Aubracs & the crosses in person. 

Morning TJ! I have been trying to work out my trips for a couple years to stop by and go through your program. I have a gentleman in Kentucky that is very interested in purchasing heifers from me for Fall delivery. If that happens, I am planning on giving you a call to set up a time to stop by. I would be very interested to see the breeds you are working with and how they might fit into my program. Every breed has something good to offer, my goal is to figure out what breeds work the best together to accomplish my goal of "Building the perfect Beast"! You take care.

 

[FCCO]

TJ, you are welcome to stop by anytime. That goes for anyone that wants to take a chance on being subjected to my wacked out theories! I would enjoy any visitors. As promised on the Masher post, here are some more Aubrac pics. The first one is a 44% polled Aubrac 1st calf heifer. We used some Composite bulls in the 80's and early 90's that had a 1/4 Tarentaise in them and it shows up in her even though it's pretty far back. The next pic is her 66% polled Aubrac bull calf out of our Shoshone bull. He is still decent made, but has more front than I care for (which is extremely hard to get bred out) in the higher % Aubracs. The last pic is a 3/4 polled Aubrac cow, one of our Angus bulls (a Matrix son) and her heifer calf by the Matrix son.

Next week maybe I will post some Red Angus pics!!!

 

[mark tenenbaum]

You know I hate to bring up a subject that has more history than almost all the cattle you have mentioned crossing-but aside from having a black color-the right type of Shorthornswill-cross with just about everything-the Angus or Hereford crosses being way good-not to mention simmi,limmi,charolais,galloway-sorry-turning into a rap version-fact remains almost EVERYTHING-is descended from them-would seem to make sense O0