Big Brown

[oakbar]

Hey Zach thanks for putting the links on for the 1973 Triple Crown with Secretariat.  Wow,  what a neat experience to see him run all three all over again.  I may be sentimental but even though he had a great horse pushing him all the time in Sham,  Secretariat got me excited about the races like no other horse before or since.  My second choice would have to be Affirmed and Alydar--those were the three closest races cumulatively in Triple Crown history.  Of all these horse mentioned,  Alydar was considered by most horse people to be the best stud.  Nothing wrong with any of the others progenty either, but Alydar was considered the best sire of the four.  Nothing against Big Brown but IMHO I'm not sure he would quite measure up to any of these.  I know its tough to compare across generations, but take a look at all three of the 1973 races and then tell me what you think!!

 

[Rustynail]

I think Equipoise does create muscle.  Way back when (way back before the days of Clebuterol even) I KNOW that specific drug you mentioned was was commonly used in steers to create muscle.  Before steroid use in athletes became as sophisticated as it was, I know college athletes back in the who used various drugs obtained from horse vets for their steriods.  Dumber than dirt, but I know for a fact it was pretty common at the small college level.  I can only imagine what went on in pros.  Just in the last couple of years an NFL player got suspended for use of clenbuterol.  So the comparison is not ridiculous.  But they do help with lots of things including appetite which might be more important to the trainers than the muscle.  But they do both.


True but I don't think that it is used to add muscle.  Exessive muscle is not something that is benificial when talking about a horse that runs a mile and an quarter.  He already has the I am still a stud so I will have a naturally heavier front end.  A lot of horses do not run well as stallions.  Behavior problems play a large issue.  This is also a side effect of equipois.  It's not a win win solution to anything.

 

[Show Heifer]

Steriods are legal in throughbred racing. So the fact he was on steriods takes nothing away from the horses that are being ran on it.
I guess what I am trying to say (and doing a piss poor job doing it) is that when he was on steriods he was phenominal, just look at the first two races when the steriods were still affecting him. Then, when the steriods were out of his system, he became a "normal" horse. Evenly matched (well, maybe not with the results from the third race) with the other horses, which I am sure are on 'roids too.

And your right, the horses I mentioned were raced with no drug test given. But I still find it odd the best times were from decades ago.....kinda like Babe Ruths record....why did it take so long to break it?
So Oakbar, I agree with you....ya gotta love those "old" horses that had that competitive spirit and just flat RAN.

I can't tell you the drug name BB was on, but I bet I could find a few that are popular, and 99% will increase muscle mass, and increase stamina. To say using steriods for strictly appetite purposes is just does not make sense. Sorry.

And it is fair to compare horses to Secertariat.....he is the measuring stick everyone wishes they could measure up too.

Chambero: Winning isn't everything....unless you open your big mouth and GUARANTEE a win. GUARANTEE a triple crown winner.  And BRAG that your horse is so much superior to all the other horses that he doesn't NEED steriods. Then, yes, winning is everything.

 

[Bawndoh]

Another thing nobody mentioned is the fact that jockeys were much larger way back "then".  Now, they are smaller, and their is still no horse comparable to Secrateriat.  There are not too many horses today, that win races like the Belmont, or the Derby by 10+lengths, or even 15, nevermind 20+ lenghts.  Even if you look closely at all the "comparables"...find me a horse that is CLOSE.

 

[STX]

Yep tried to run a clean race without steroids amazing what they can do.

 

[inthebarnagain]

I read somewhere that Big Brown was on Winstrol-V.  That is a steroid draft horse pullers use to bulk up their pulling horses. 

 

[Dusty]

Another thing nobody mentioned is the fact that jockeys were much larger way back "then".  Now, they are smaller, and their is still no horse comparable to Secrateriat.  There are not too many horses today, that win races like the Belmont, or the Derby by 10+lengths, or even 15, nevermind 20+ lenghts.  Even if you look closely at all the "comparables"...find me a horse that is CLOSE.

I will venture to say that Secretariat would not be remembered as he is now if it wasn't for Sham.  Because of Sham, Secretariat went from being a great horse to an immortal one.  Sham was pushing Secretariat when he ran that legendary Derby time. Anyone that has ever ran in a sprint race knows that you will always run faster in a heat with fast runners.  There is something about having someone right on you heels that brings out a little more than when you are safely ahead of the pack.

SH, are you going to say Sham was an average horse because he got last in the Belmont???  Slew's triple crown race times were nothing special particularly, a lot of horses have ran faster.  Was Slew not a great horse????

Trying to compare horses of different era's would be like trying to compare Joe Namath to Peyton Manning... You can't do it...

 

[Rustynail]

Asked whether steroid withdrawal could account for Big Brown's lack of run Saturday, Dr. Larry Bramlage, a partner in Rood and Riddle Equine Hospital in Lexington, Ky., and the on-call vet at the Belmont Stakes, said he didn't think so.

"The anabolic steroids keep him eating, keep him happy and keep him aggressive," Bramlage said. "All of which he showed all week long."

I am going to say this one more time. Extra Muscle is NOT a desirable trait in thoroughbred horses.  Especially stallions.  The reason you don't see any 4 - 5  year old stallions running is because the get naturally too heavy in the neck and front end.  Also their testicles get in the way.  To give Big Brown steroid in the way Barry Bonds does would be counter productive. 

The fact is Big Brown is one of the greats.  Sorry he just is.  Could he outrun Secratarit, yes.  That what horse racing is about.  That is why people bet and they have oldds.  There are no sure things.  Any horse can be outrun.  That is why they don't pay the purse until after the race.

I guess Secratariet must have just been a common horse too.  He was outran by Sham and Angle Light three weeks before the Kentucky Derby in the Wood Memorial.  Even the immortals have been outrun.  It's just cheap shots being taken at a great horse who had an off day. 

 

[knabe]

doh

http://sports.yahoo.com/rah/news?slug=ap-dutrow-suspension&prov=ap&type=lgns

The penalty is the first for Dutrow in Kentucky, though hardly the first time he’s run into trouble. He spoke openly about his checkered past during Big Brown’s run at the Triple Crown. He’s been cited dozens of times over the years for everything from repeated medication violations to his own drug use.

The news of the possible suspension comes just days after IEAH Stables, co-owners of Big Brown, stepped forward and said it would take all of its horses off steroids entirely and shy away from trainers who continue to use the drugs to maintain their horses.

“If they don’t want to play by the rules, then they don’t get to train with us,” Michael Iavarone, co-president of IEAH, told The Associated Press in an interview Monday.


AND>>>>>

Several pictures have surfaced in recent days indicating Big Brown ran almost the entire 1 1/2 -mile race with the shoe on his right rear foot dislodged after he collided with Guadacanal shortly after leaving the starting gate.

Iavarone said he believes the shoe problem may have contributed to Big Brown’s poor showing in the Belmont, though Dutrow isn’t so sure. Big Brown also ran with an acrylic patch on his left front hoof to protect a quarter crack, an injury that kept him off the track for several days leading up to the race.

“I don’t know, it’s kind of a puzzle to me,” Dutrow said. “I just don’t get the whole thing. It looks like when you look at the pictures, it could have bothered him, but I should have seen it and the rider (Kent Desormeaux) didn’t feel it.”

 

[linnettejane]

wow....i cant believe they are going to still race him....

 

[GONEWEST]

New pictures since Dutrow made that statement, check it out at bloodhorse.com. It would be similar to a lady walking on a broken heel. One of the first things that was mentioned, however, was that idiot starter standing directly out in front of the 1 hole at about 50 yards. Obviously BB was surprised and jumped to the inside in front of Guadalcanal who stepped on his right back foot. The pictures are pretty amazing if you haven't seen them.

 

[red]

now he's suspended. For how long?

Red