BISS ELEMENT 79 370Z National Champion Shorthorn at Denver

[thunderdownunder]

I'd love to see this bull slicked/wet, anyone got any pics without the hair?

I don't have any pictures, but he doesn't have as much hair as it looks like.  I've seen this bull in the washrack, and he is the exact same bull soaked down as he is haired up.  A huge congratulations to the crew and of course Jordan!

I had a few friends look at him in Edmonton and Regina too but, all the same... I'd still like to see him slick. Anyone?
Also, did anyone happen to get any videos of the champions?

Marksman looks like a good masculine sire, nice job JIT and co.... good to see some balls!!  (lol)

 

[Okotoks]

Another photo of Element.

 

[Doc]

Here is a class winner from Moore's by HC Timeline, he looks like a powerfull bull as well! Canadian bred, American owned. The reserve Champion was American bred (with American and Canadian owners)by a Canadian bull, Saskvalley Primo 40P (thumbsup) We have more up here than ice and snow(no really we do (lol) )

The two bulls from pictures alone look starkly different type and kind. Maybe its just me. The Timeline son seems like he has alot of sheath and tends to be longer bodied more extended through front with some skin there too. The Element bull seems very masculine and just massive. Pictures are so hard to evaluate. I like video but reality is its always nice to see bulls in person. I didn't think his feet look bad up front just from those photos on Element bull. The bull that won NAILE looked like he toed more out front then ELement bull. JMO

Shawn, if you go look at some pictures that Cindy put on Shorthorn Country Facebook page (and somebody else posted some on Facebook )when he was in lineup you will see what I was talking about.
Talking about 2 different types of bulls that is what you had in that class, bull that won it was a 8.4 frame and the other bull was a 6.2 frame.

 

[RSL Cattle Co.]

I was down in Denver and was very impressed with the quality of bulls presented, I liked both bulls but have always wondered how many cows Element has naturally bred in his lifetime.

 

[Davis Shorthorns]

We have more up here than ice and snow(no really we do (lol) )

ya know here lately with these polar vortexes I think you are going to have to do a lot of convincing of us down south of that sir.  (lol)

 

[justintime]

We have more up here than ice and snow(no really we do (lol) )

ya know here lately with these polar vortexes I think you are going to have to do a lot of convincing of us down south of that sir.  (lol)

I think coyote had the perfect explanation of why the US is getting such nasty weather. He said that the US gave us COOL, so are now giving them COLD. Makes perfect sense to me!

 

[Judge]

I know this post is from awhile ago, but I was talking with some guys and had remembered about seeing this on sp. from the pics the bull looks pretty good, looks big though. I heard his semen is a 100 dollars a pop plus 10 dose min, I thinks that's pretty steap is the bull not good enough to work on average cows!

 

[shortyjock89]

I know this post is from awhile ago, but I was talking with some guys and had remembered about seeing this on sp. from the pics the bull looks pretty good, looks big though. I heard his semen is a 100 dollars a pop plus 10 dose min, I thinks that's pretty steap is the bull not good enough to work on average cows!

Probably not.  Not many Shorthorn bulls are.

 

[justintime]

I know this post is from awhile ago, but I was talking with some guys and had remembered about seeing this on sp. from the pics the bull looks pretty good, looks big though. I heard his semen is a 100 dollars a pop plus 10 dose min, I thinks that's pretty steap is the bull not good enough to work on average cows!

With present record breaking calf prices, I can't think of any time where $100/ dose semen should make sense. Semen prices has always been something I have never quite figured out. My dad was selling semen in the 60s from one of our herd bulls at $35/ straw and we priced many other bulls in the 70s and early 80s at $35 to $50 per straw. I don't ever remember any complaints about the price. We had several breeders take 50 straws at a time. I purchased Ready Go at a record price at the 1973 American Polled Congress and his semen was priced at $35/ straw. We sold over 700 straws in Canada and the US within 4 months of buying him and also sold large batches of semen to South Africa, Argentina, and Brazil. Compare calf prices in that era compared to calf prices today.
I recently purchased the semen rights in a bull in Australia and am offering semen from him at $45/ straw. I have probably had more complaints on semen today at $45/ straw than I ever had in the 70s to 90s combined. I guess I don't get it!  If $100 semen is too steep for anyone, then there are a wide array of cheaper priced bulls on the market. There really is no reason for any bull to be used in all herds.

 

[aj]

The market place will decide what a bulls semen is worth........not what the owner thinks its worth. A product priced at 100 bucks.......is not a product......if it doesn't sell.

 

[Judge]

It is just not a 100 dollars tho, it's a 1000.00 dollars and shipping on top of that depending where you are located. But what I'm getting at is it drives me kinda crazy, that they have a 10 dose min plus charge way to much so that people will breed there best, if a bull is good enough he should be able to work on a wide variety of cows in any breed.

 

[Medium Rare]

It is just not a 100 dollars tho, it's a 1000.00 dollars and shipping on top of that depending where you are located. But what I'm getting at is it drives me kinda crazy, that they have a 10 dose min plus charge way to much so that people will breed there best, if a bull is good enough he should be able to work on a wide variety of cows in any breed.

As long as it is on the market for anyone to buy, I don't blame them for setting the price where they want.  Everyone can see his pedigree and everyone has the ability to take a stab at breeding a replica of their own.  The effort involved in such a venture makes the $100 look awfully cheap to me. 

Several years ago I had a guy ask about a couple canes of our herd bull and I cringed just thinking about the negative impact it could have on the bull and my operation.  His cows were well below average, his management skills were poor, his ability to put the right bulls on the right cows was all but non existent, and on top of all of the above he liked to tell everyone in the neighborhood his business. When his mismanaged calves didn't come close to topping the local market or when no one was interested in buying his "replacement heifers" it was always the bull and bull owners fault and he'd tell everyone he met that BullX was crap.  He could have used the best bull to walk the earth and it wasn't going to give him the results he desired.  I priced it high enough I was sure he wouldn't be interested as I figured the coffee shop back lash I would get from that would blow over much faster than the calves looking like crap the next season.  I have no doubt it was the right decision.

As far as the cane deal, anyone who has privately sold semen knows how much of a pain in the fingertips it is to sell 3 straws to Jon, 4 straws to Jim, 7 straws to Jack, and on and on and on.  If I ever privately sell a decent volume of semen on a bull again, it will be by the cane and worth my time, or not at all.

 

[Doc]

It is just not a 100 dollars tho, it's a 1000.00 dollars and shipping on top of that depending where you are located. But what I'm getting at is it drives me kinda crazy, that they have a 10 dose min plus charge way to much so that people will breed there best, if a bull is good enough he should be able to work on a wide variety of cows in any breed.

Pretty easy solution. Don't buy it!! The shipping should only add about $18/straw to the cost. I'm like Medium rare. The 3 straw purchase at $25/straw is a hassle. Although. sometimes you have to do it to try to get people to try your bull. If you have a bull that won what all he had won, why not charge more than what they are charging for every club calf bull and unshown bull out there. I can remember when PaDo Boxer was named Nat'l Champion bull and Don priced the semen at $50/straw , 10 straw minimum and people freaked out. Except the ones that thought enough of a bull that truly deserved to be named Nat'l Champion and try him .
If he should be able to work on a wide variety of cows, why not spend an extra $70 or $75 for a calf by him. I say kudos to them if they are selling the semen for that. I wish I had half the money back from semen that I threw out on bulls that the calves were junk or the EPD's went from good to horrible in 1 calf crop, but at the time I bought the semen I looked at "well it's just $250 for 10 straws".

 

[sue]

Reading along - I dont know if the owners of Element are WHR members or not? If they are then Jan 1,15 we should see epds on line and if they are not well then we will not? This goes for all or any non whr shorthorn cattle. Looking forward to this change and really loving multi- breed epds.  Best of luck with Element sales- if you're interested in this pedigree, several embryo packages sell in Denver next month.  Catalog on line www.shorthorncountry.net

 

[ty378]

Doc its like juge said they hqve it high so it vets used on the best cows, i dont agree on selling 2 doses but 5 is a good number. What happens to the guys who have multiple breeds like me i own 2 shorthorn cows that i would like to use element on but am i going to spend 1000 plus dollars to get 2 cows bred when angus wre my main breed? The answer is prob not.

 

[Doc]

Doc its like juge said they hqve it high so it vets used on the best cows, i dont agree on selling 2 doses but 5 is a good number. What happens to the guys who have multiple breeds like me i own 2 shorthorn cows that i would like to use element on but am i going to spend 1000 plus dollars to get 2 cows bred when angus wre my main breed? The answer is prob not.

If you could control semen on your bull to where it was only used on the best cows and therefore hopefully control the caliber of the calves that are produced , which in turn should make more people want to spend the $100/straw to buy the semen, wouldn't you? I would. Find someone to split a cane. I don't think there is anything saying you couldn't do that.

 

[jnm]

I looked up EPD's on these bulls; Bw for one is 4.6 and other is 5.3. Is everyone comfortable using bulls with EPD's this high?

 

[Doc]

I looked up EPD's on these bulls; Bw for one is 4.6 and other is 5.3. Is everyone comfortable using bulls with EPD's this high?

Depends on what you are breeding to and trying to accomplish. You didn't put the rest of the picture up there. Their weaning and yearling EPD's are to 20 to 30 points over the breed average, plus they are a little over on milk. So you give up some on BW ( avg is 2.33) but gain a lot on weights. I don't know that either bull is being marketed as a heifer bull.

 

[justintime]

There seems to be some people who think that every sire should be available for them to use. I don't think this is ever the case in any breed. I think a breed is in a better situation when many sires are used and in this case, I think there are lots of excellent breeding bulls that can be used.
There are lots of makes of cars on the market but not all of them meet my needs and many are priced beyond what I am willing to pay. Most everything in life seems to be designed in this way... semen is not the exception.
If you don't want to put out $1000 for 10 straws of semen, either partner with someone like Doc has mentioned or select a sire that does meet your budget limits. The list is wide and diverse, and there are many great choices you can make.

As a side note, I am always looking for sires that few others are using, that meet my criteria. I have just purchased my 3rd semen share in a bull that costs $2500 for 20 straws of semen. I like this bull's calves and in my opinion, this is a minimal cost to be able to use a sire that I like.... and I also like the fact that few others are using him!

 

[knabe]

What does one see in this bull that is so compelling they have to use him  but complain about the price? 


That he was champion twice?