c-section effect flushing?

[DTW]

If you have a problem with genetic defects in cattle DONT USE THEM.  But there are those of us that use them and know how to manage them by testing the offspring. 
And as far as your comment about clubby people not worried about making  money you are so off based you need to step out of the back forty and into reality.  I know several breeders in the clubby deal and they make a very very good living selling show cattle.

There is a place for show cattle as well as commercial in the beef industry and if you dont agree with that that is your opinion but you need to be more open minded. 

 

[justintime]

Steerjocks don't raise calves. They TRADE calves. The cattle winning today shows are genetic defect defect freakazoids. Period. There is a grand canyon between these cattle and the beef industry. You don't like to hear the truth. You and your country club buddies are going to have to gand up on me and get me banned. Only because you disagree with the truth. Thats OK. I sleep well at night. JIT...I have never heard a from the heart response from you. You are always merchandising,angling, precisely manipulating words and people to like you. I stated my belief's. Then someone took one sentence of mine out of context. Then all the country clubbers came after me on that one. Genetic defect cattle bother me. Some people have standards. Some people don't . Leave me alone and I won't have to respond to this goofy stuff.

Genetic defect cattle really bother me as well, aj. If you can't remember some of my comments on this topic you have a very short memory. I may have to apologize to you as I did not realize that you were the only person who has been annointed with " the truth". I guess from what you are saying that basically anyone who does not agree with you is obviously wrong on anything they say. I guess from what you are saying then, is that everyone and anyone who has ever gone to a cattle show, or produced an animal that went to a cattle show, is a crook, or is in some way harming the real cattle producers. I really don't understand why you get so upset with shows or with people who like to show. You tell us you don't pay any attention to them. There are lots of genetics out there that are not the so called popular show lines, so why do shows bother you so much? They should be of no concern to you or your operation. Like I said earlier, the beef industry has many branches. There is room for people who want to be involved in any one of them. If they are not doing the same thing you are, it should really be of no concern to you. I have seen many families work together and form good work ethic and strong family bonds from their involvement in youth and junior events and I take great exception to you making disingenuous comments about this. I think many others do as well.

So, what is wrong with cattle traders? We used to see several traders come through our country in the late spring and summer months. I do not know of any producer who did not anxiously await these people to come as they oftentimes purchased 15 -20 head from them at $1500 averages. If these guys had not come, most of these calves would have been sold through a feeder market at a fraction of what these so called traders were willing to pay for them. There are traders in virtually every commodity that is sold, whether it be grains, farm equipment, cars and trucks, houses, or land. There are ruthless people in any business. I happen to know of some very good people who buy and sell cattle and clubby calves. They do it to make a living, and I thought it was the American dream to be able to make money and better yourself. Again, how do these people even affect you? I am sure after your comments of what you think of them become public, you won't have many of them beating a path to your door. They should be of no concern to how you want to run your business.

In regards to me, not giving a " from the heart response" I have no idea of what you are talking about. My comments are only my thoughts on any given topic as well as my experiences from a lifetime in this business. I do not go out of my way to insult anyone, but I make my strongest stands when I see someone insult someone else.I have NEVER posted a comment that was not my true belief on any topic. I only respond to topics that I have an opinion on, and I have never posted a comment that was not my true feelings on a topic.  I happen to agree with you on many occasions... I really do. Where I disagree with you is when you insult others, or when you make blanket statements like you have done here. You constantly make statements regarding everyone who shows, or any animal from any particular line. I don't think I have ever made a comment on SP in an attempt to have people like me. I am who I am, and some people like me, others don't. I have far too many other things to do, to worry about this. That said, I would say that I certainly don't go out of my way to insult others or make people dislike me  for no apparent reason either. Maybe I am at times, guilty of merchandising, but in my world, promotion is even more important than producing it . Many people post pictures of cattle they have raised or own, for other peoples appraisal. I have done the same, and I really don't see this being a major problem. This is after all, a cattle discussion site, and when myself, or anyone else post some pictures, we are opening ourselves up to negative comments as well as positive ones. You are not the only person who likes to dwell on posting negative comments on different topics, but sometimes, your comments are like" negativity on steroids". I really don't get that, about you. You are never going to win anyone to your side or your view when you insult them first.

As far as " leaving you alone", I would suggest you look back to your first comment in this thread. I don't see anyone asking you for an opinion on this topic. Your first comment starts out " and thus.... the club calf deal isn't even attached to the beef industry. Seldom is ET even related to the beef industry" You then go further and make some further comments that are quite negative, to say the least. Again, how does ET affect you and your operation? It is a free world out there and if you don't want to have anything to do with ET or any animal produced from it, that is certainly your choice and it is very possible to do. If you look back to other threads you have commented on, I don't see where anyone has ever asked specifically for your opinion. You freely volunteer it every time, which by itself is a good thing, but where I have a problem is when you respond in rude or negativity to the extreme. Believe me aj... I really would love to leave you alone. Just give me a chance to do so.

 

[JSchroeder]

Show heifer, do you realize the fact that you had to call two and ask that already indicates you aren't up to speed on the subject?

I could call two right now that would tell you half of the ET work done is for bucking bulls.  That doesn't mean ET is used only for rodeo.

 

[chambero]

I'm about ready to go back to arguing conspiracy theories.

 

[JSchroeder]

TH, AM, NH, and PHA were created by the radical animal rights activists in the government.

All of us who breed them are in on it.

THERE this is now the perfect SP thread.

 

[justintime]

TH, AM, NH, and PHA were created by the radical animal rights activists in the government.

All of us who breed them are in on it.

THERE this is now the perfect SP thread.

Better throw in some good old cheating and a conspiracy for people who show cattle to take over all the ranch land in the nation. Then it would be an even more perfect SP thread!

 

[Show Heifer]

Show heifer, do you realize the fact that you had to call two and ask that already indicates you aren't up to speed on the subject?

I could call two right now that would tell you half of the ET work done is for bucking bulls.  That doesn't mean ET is used only for rodeo.

Actually jeff, it just means I wanted "experts" opinion on the number, and not just someone off the back 40 spouting their "idea" on what the industry does. Sorry to offend you.
Everyone wanted to know the figures, yet everyone was just guessing... so I called and confirmed some numbers. I beg your pardon.

 

[rtmcc]

Ron....I think you better stick to being a cattle buyer, a cattle trader, and blue heeler breeder. Cattle buyers and club calf jocks are leaches. They don't don't produce they manipulate. I am not sur you have the fortitude or knowledge to last 3 years of breeding cattle let alone 10 years.

AJ, In my business, if you don't have thick enough skin to handle a little smack talk and whine you don't last long. I am sure I feel much more sorry for you than you do for me.  You must live a lonely life. 

As for all of us SALARIED COMPANY CATTLE BUYERS  that handle the daily procurement needs of the largest and safest beef industry in the world for companies like Tyson, Cargill, National and in my case JBS, you may consider us leaches but 670,000 head of cattle are not going to get harvested and sold to the consumer as locker beef in a weeks time  without us.  Its a symbiotic relationship.  I do not trade cattle.  I simply try to buy as many high quality cattle as I can each day that meet our specs for quality with the market I am given.

Next, I know there is some good ones out there but I would not have a blue heeler.  No offense to the Blue Heeler breeders, just like our Aussie better for our family.

As for fortitude and knowledge to last in the breeding cattle industry, maybe your right.  But with my limited fortitude and knowledge I have been involved in the pure bred breeding cattle business for 27 years, both full time and part time, both pure bred show cattle and commercial seed stock production, on two different continents.  Our program is limited in size do to lack of real-estate and capital.  I did not have a family ranch or farm to take over.  My wife and I have done it all on our own.  Our kids have had more than their share of success in the show ring with our bred and owned cattle.  Also our bulls averaged over $2600 over the last five years.  we have had the high gaining Sim-Angus bull at the Midland Bull Test a few years back.  I suppose that was manipulated also.

Our focus is in the Angus business so I can share some of your feelings about  genetic defects.  Fortunately we only had one cow that came up a carrier, a really neat made CA Future Direction daughter that is a great mother.  Just for fun I bred her to the clubby bull Smooth Sailing.  This mating was intended to be terminal from the moment I thawed the semen.  If your going to breed her dirty, just as well be double dirty.  She has a great bull/steer calf that will be very salable in our fall "Rolling with the Changes On Line Sale."  AJ, check it out later this year on Breeders world.  I am confident you will find something on there that even you may like for your involvement in the beef industry. 

By the way, what is your involvement in the beef industry?  Not trying to be sarcastic, just don't know anything about your background.  I am sure you will tell us.

As for an apology AJ, don't worry about.  Since my earlier post today, in addition to being labeled a leach,  my ten year old daughter and I went out and rinsed her Bred and Owned Angus she is getting ready for her first National Junior Angus Show which is in Denver this year.  She is very excited because her grandparents live in Denver and can finally see her show.  She also worked on her third generation bred and owned Charolais heifer that she is getting ready for county fair the week after Nationals.  we checked cows and calves together.  After our seven year old son got home from a friends house in town, the four of us headed up to Rochester as the kids both start summer baseball monday and both needed new gloves.  we all enjoyed a great meal at Applebees.  Caroline remembered that that is the Applebees we were at last fall when we told the kids they were going to have a new baby sister or brother the first week or so in June.  Yes, this June!

I may be a leach, but I am a happy leach!  we live, breathe, eat and sh-t the beef business around here and non of us would have it any other way! Not even your response to my earlier post can ruin this day!

Now I better get some rest as mother is a bit restless tonight and there is a change in the weather.  Even I have figured out that can stimulate parturition in expecting females.

Once again Aj, I feel sorry for you.  Now I am going to bed to reflect on my day and page thru the new edition of Show Circuit that came today!

Ron
  <cowboy>

 

[shorthorngirl2010]

My best black angus cow is a 878 daughter. He has dodged all the defects to my knowledge till this one. 878's dam sired by 598.

MIGHT keep an eye out for DWARFISM... unsure if he's been tested, or if there has ever been an issue with him, however remember a discussion about his bloodlines and the issue
http://www.steerplanet.com/bb/index.php?topic=8688.15 [page 2]

TH, AM, NH, and PHA were created by the radical animal rights activists in the government.

All of us who breed them are in on it.

THERE this is now the perfect SP thread.

bahahaha.... he catches onto what i was hinting at earlier (lol)
*Edit- accidently combined 2 threads... however, I hinted on this in another... lol... oopsy <beer>

 

[aj]

rtmcc its hard to argue against some from from Minnesota about the beef industry. Cherry county Nebraska has raised more cattle in 1 year than your state has raised in last 17 years. I stand corrected.

 

[vet tech]

rtmcc its hard to argue against some from from Minnesota about the beef industry. Cherry county Nebraska has raised more cattle in 1 year than your state has raised in last 17 years. I stand corrected.

where your from doesn't mean a thing about your knowledge of cattle or the industry.

 

[rtmcc]

rtmcc its hard to argue against some from from Minnesota about the beef industry. Cherry county Nebraska has raised more cattle in 1 year than your state has raised in last 17 years. I stand corrected.

Good point AJ.  Does this mean that is were you are from and that you help produce all those cattle?
If we all came and lived in Cherry County, there would not be room for all those cattle.  while Fillmore County MN pales in comparison, we do have more beef cows than any other county in the state.  And most of those calves are fed out right here in Fillmore County.

I love Cherry County.  If the weather is good when we travel to Colorado to see my wife's family, we usually go west to Chamberlin and then south on 83 just so we can travel thru cow country and Valentine.  Its much more intriguing than south to Des Moines and then west on I-80.

Now, I must go check cows so I have time to go to a bull sale open house for Philip Abrahamson's Sunny Slope Angus, one of the oldest Angus herds in the US.  Maybe you have heard of some of the bulls that Phil has produced.  They have had a small impact on the beef industry, SS Objective T510 0T26, T510 himself ...  Oh and yes, they came form SE Minnesota.  No, its not my claim to fame, but we are in the beef business in other places in the country than Nebraska.

Have a great Day!

Ron
<cowboy>

 

[JSchroeder]

SH, that's the point.  It's not just back 40 experience.  ET tech tend to almost specialize because word of mouth within varilous niches.  If you only talk to one or two guys, your view will be highly skewed.

 

[Jill]

rtmcc its hard to argue against some from from Minnesota about the beef industry. Cherry county Nebraska has raised more cattle in 1 year than your state has raised in last 17 years. I stand corrected.

What does that have to do with anything, you live in Kansas and have for as long as I can remember?

 

[wowcows]

This thread is better than reading the Sunday morning funnies! Now, I have yet read the apoligy from aj to Ron and expect to see it. Next, I question as to how big a man aj is if he was not hiding behind a computer screen. That is all I have to say!
Ron, keep us up-to-date on Tina's calving.
Oh, btw, I am from NE Kansas and have a job in town and a handful of purbred cows of 3 different breeds. Live, breath, and bleed cow. <beer>

 

[vet tech]

Thanks to everyone who gave me a response, maybe I shouldn't ask anymore questions 

 

[justintime]

Thanks to everyone who gave me a response, maybe I shouldn't ask anymore questions 

Vet tech... there was nothing wrong with your question,... in fact it was an excellent question. What was wrong was some of the responses to your question. Please ask more questions. There is no such thing as a dumb question, but in asking, you can expect a few dumb answers.

 

[vet tech]

Thanks to everyone who gave me a response, maybe I shouldn't ask anymore questions 

Vet tech... there was nothing wrong with your question,... in fact it was an excellent question. What was wrong was some of the responses to your question. Please ask more questions. There is no such thing as a dumb question, but in asking, you can expect a few dumb answers.

Oh I know I was just kidding haha

 

[OH Breeder]

Steerjocks don't raise calves. They TRADE calves. The cattle winning today shows are genetic defect defect freakazoids. Period. There is a grand canyon between these cattle and the beef industry. You don't like to hear the truth. You and your country club buddies are going to have to gand up on me and get me banned. Only because you disagree with the truth. Thats OK. I sleep well at night. JIT...I have never heard a from the heart response from you. You are always merchandising,angling, precisely manipulating words and people to like you. I stated my belief's. Then someone took one sentence of mine out of context. Then all the country clubbers came after me on that one. Genetic defect cattle bother me. Some people have standards. Some people don't . Leave me alone and I won't have to respond to this goofy stuff.

Vet Tech...always good to get different views and answers. i have learned a tremendous amount of knowledge both good and bad about both people and cattle from this site. That is what makes it so much FUN!! (thumbsup)

WOW....the only country club I belong to is a group of friends who live in the country also SHOW and RAISE cattle. That is a good one!

What most of you folks may have failed to realize is this is the same thread that we have hashed and rehashed with AJ and his anti-show comments for the past couple years. This is nothing new hence the BROKEN RECORD. Believe me, none of this surprises me except that a person(rtmcc)  that deals with that number of cattle for his LIVING might have a better perspective then ALOT of us.

We live in a free country. I am glad AJ has the right to express his some what limited and narrow views...... as well as I am glad I have the ability to reply. It also affords us all the liberty to RAISE the type of cattle we want. If you don't like show cattle then DON"T use them in your herd. Build a program to suit yourself and be happy with it. Whether that is a 1000 head feed lot operation or 10 old show heifers that you breed to sell calves for kids to show at the county fair.

 

[6M Ranch]

I appreciate a web site like Steerplanet as I've learned a lot from this thread.

1)  Club calf breeders are idiots.
2)  Club calves are a separate species, unrelated to bovine.
3)  Aussies are better than Blue Heelers.
4)  No one in Minnesota should raise cattle, since they are outproduced by a county in Nebraska.
 4a)  People in Minnesota don't know anything about cattle. See #4 above
5)  My membership to the country club must have gotten lost in the mail.
6)  High birthweights are a government conspiracy.  
7)  Don't ask legitimate questions if you want a useful answer.  

No where in the original post did he state it was a club calf bull that was used.  It could have been a low birthweight registered bull.  In fact, the calf was normall sized, and was "twisted".  Not sure why people need to hijack a thread with personal opinions when they were never asked.  Apparently I was raised a little differently.