Calving Problems Already

[minimoo38]

i thought that she was registered, but it was my other heifer from that year.    i have no idea who her dam is. sorry. i'll have to send in a sample to Dr. Beever and see what is up.
thanks a lot for everyone's advice, comments, and sympathy. 

 

[KDSC]

Do you need the info on where to send it?? I can get it real quick if needed?

 

[minimoo38]

the first page of posts had the info, but thanks anyway 

 

[DL]

so sorry for you problems - it certainly looks like TH from the pictures - I gather there is some question regarding pedigree - what I would do in addition to sending the ears (one from each calf) to Dr Beever as suggested is send these calves to the diagnostic lab for necropsy - - if it turns out they are TH calves (which as I said from the pictures is likely) then you have your diagnosis from the ear - but if they are not TH then you haven't a clue. If your vet has seen TH calves maybe he (she) is willing to diagnose and do a necropsy - I am a big one for having everything necropsied - it is also possible that they could have both TH and PHA and necrospsy could tell you that - there are other things that could be going on that you want to know about - virus, toxins etc but I am betting TH - in regards to the ears but them in baggies and double bad and send in a leak proof container.....good luck

 

[farmboy]

while ur at it you could get a TH test done for the dam, but i guess if the calves are th, you dont need a test...

 

[DL]

while ur at it you could get a TH test done for the dam, but i guess if the calves are th, you dont need a test...

That is absolutely correct zach! It would be interesting to know the genetics

 

[shorthorns r us]

so sorry for you problems - it certainly looks like TH from the pictures - I gather there is some question regarding pedigree - what I would do in addition to sending the ears (one from each calf) to Dr Beever as suggested is send these calves to the diagnostic lab for necropsy - - if it turns out they are TH calves (which as I said from the pictures is likely) then you have your diagnosis from the ear - but if they are not TH then you haven't a clue. If your vet has seen TH calves maybe he (she) is willing to diagnose and do a necropsy - I am a big one for having everything necropsied - it is also possible that they could have both TH and PHA and necrospsy could tell you that - there are other things that could be going on that you want to know about - virus, toxins etc but I am betting TH - in regards to the ears but them in baggies and double bad and send in a leak proof container.....good luck

for that stage of gestation, don't they look a little like they could be PHA effected. or is it affected; i never can remember.  never seen a PHA calf live and in person.

 

[Jill]

Your not going to get PHA from Heat Wave 1

 

[aj]

Are the frontlegs twisted also? I would consider th.

 

[minimoo38]

yes. all four legs on both calves are twisted.

my dad just wants to wait and see if we have any more problems like this, because we are going to sell the cow regardless.
so i guess, so long for now.

 

[DL]

yes. all four legs on both calves are twisted.

my dad just wants to wait and see if we have any more problems like this, because we are going to sell the cow regardless.
so i guess, so long for now.

hmmmm .....are we selling the cow for burger or breeding???

 

[minimoo38]

probably to the packer for burgers. :'( she was a good cow while she lasted.

 

[DL]

probably to the packer for burgers. :'( she was a good cow while she lasted.

Don't laugh (OK go ahead) you might want to save an ear in the freezer from the calves or the cow (yeah I know it is probably only Beever and I and a couple of other wierd people who have calf ears in our freezers 
sorry about how that turned out for you ;D)

 

[minimoo38]

i'm not going to laugh. promise.  we are going to save the ear, but we don't really need a freezer because it's -8 here in Iowa tonight

 

[KDSC]

You save the ear do you just cut a peice out of the ear, or do you actually get the ear down to the base???  We have a freezer with with calf nuts  in them ;D But then again we have 2 freezer/fridges and a standup freezer in out house, and then we have a fridge and a freezer in the shop. ;D

 

[minimoo38]

you only need a piece, but you can leave the whole ear in the freezer to scare someone later!!  ;D  (clapping)  :

 

[justintime]

I have not seen TH calves at this stage of gestation so I certainly am not an expert of any kind here. The only sure way to know is to send these calves in for necropsy as DL has recommended. I would also urge you to contact Dr. Beever and send him whatever samples he would like to see.

I have learned a long time ago to never jump to any conclusions on these type of events. From the pictures, TH seems to be a possibility, but then I have seen some aborted calves that look very strange that were caused by other things. To me the only thing I see that strongly suggest TH, from the pictures are the abdominal hernias. The back legs do appear to be abnormal but to my very amateur eyes, they do not look as abnormal as the TH calves I have seen. If you have seen calves with TH you never forget what they look like. I would urge you to follow the proper chanells and find out what you arr dealing with. Mother Nature also has a few tricks up her sleeve, that can really confuse us from time to time.

Dumped twins at 4 to 6 months happens at a fairly high frequency. It certainly would be nice to know if this is caused by something genetic in nature, or something else.

 

[showgirl2010]

I have not seen TH calves at this stage of gestation so I certainly am not an expert of any kind here. The only sure way to know is to send these calves in for necropsy as DL has recommended. I would also urge you to contact Dr. Beever and send him whatever samples he would like to see.

I have learned a long time ago to never jump to any conclusions on these type of events. From the pictures, TH seems to be a possibility, but then I have seen some aborted calves that look very strange that were caused by other things. To me the only thing I see that strongly suggest TH, from the pictures are the abdominal hernias. The back legs do appear to be abnormal but to my very amateur eyes, they do not look as abnormal as the TH calves I have seen. If you have seen calves with TH you never forget what they look like. I would urge you to follow the proper chanells and find out what you arr dealing with. Mother Nature also has a few tricks up her sleeve, that can really confuse us from time to time.

Dumped twins at 4 to 6 months happens at a fairly high frequency. It certainly would be nice to know if this is caused by something genetic in nature, or something else.

Yes, a drastic change in weather can set a cow to calve before her time.  Also there were twins, if the legs aren't too twisted it could be because of the twins.  I had a twin a couple years ago and his front legs were twisted inward.  They eventually straightened. 

Another thing we have had calving problems this season too.  One cow had a calf ALIVE about 30 days early we were guesin.  The calf was about 20-25lbs. with very short fine hair like a dogs.  The calf ended up dying.  Then we had another abort a calf,but we couldn't find the calf.  We have talked to our vet he said that there was a high rate of abortions for fall calvers b/c of the horrible summer we had.  Of course I'm in Souther IL.  So we are kinda wait and see what the rest of ours cows do before jumping to conclusion.

I hope this is the case, but i do not understand the hernias.  I hope the rest of the calving season is better for you.  Good luck!

 

[Jill]

The size of the calves and the fact that there were twins may have more to do with the twisted legs than anything, I would test one of the ears and that way you won't spend the rest of your life guessing.  I know in humans (and I guess cows work the same way) if there is a problem with the pregnancy the body will abort it, doesn't mean the cow is bad just that there was something wrong, again, I would test so you know.

 

[DL]

I have not seen TH calves at this stage of gestation so I certainly am not an expert of any kind here. The only sure way to know is to send these calves in for necropsy as DL has recommended. I would also urge you to contact Dr. Beever and send him whatever samples he would like to see.

I have learned a long time ago to never jump to any conclusions on these type of events. From the pictures, TH seems to be a possibility, but then I have seen some aborted calves that look very strange that were caused by other things. To me the only thing I see that strongly suggest TH, from the pictures are the abdominal hernias. The back legs do appear to be abnormal but to my very amateur eyes, they do not look as abnormal as the TH calves I have seen. If you have seen calves with TH you never forget what they look like. I would urge you to follow the proper chanells and find out what you arr dealing with. Mother Nature also has a few tricks up her sleeve, that can really confuse us from time to time.

Dumped twins at 4 to 6 months happens at a fairly high frequency. It certainly would be nice to know if this is caused by something genetic in nature, or something else.

Well said JIT - we don't really know what 5 mo TH calves look like but the abdominal hernias and the twisted legs are suspicious of TH - sure cow dump calves all the time at various stages of gestation and that is why I always recommend necropsy of any aborted calf - could be TH, great you know, but could be something else wierd or contagious or infectious and in that case it would be good to know. Making a diagnosis from a picture of a dead calf, without benefit of touching and cutting etc is fraught with danger...the most important necropsy is the first one, the one that is most often not done. ANd if you don't want to call your vet or send it to a diagnostic lab - learn to do it yourself (this is generic you) - once you know normal you can figure out abnormal. From what I see in the pictures the twisted legs are the result of abnormal bone & joint formation not being squished as twins, but like I said one would need to touch etc to know for sure. In regards to humans and cows aborting when something is wrong, sometimes that is true and sometimes it isn't - who knows why that is