Can anyone explain this.....horned angus

[CAB]

  DL, if you can run an IPOD, you are only as old as the tech. world you live in. I am not very tech @ all. At one time I thought that I could slip through this life without having to get on this pc.

 

[DL]

  DL, if you can run an IPOD, you are only as old as the tech. world you live in. I am not very tech @ all. At one time I thought that I could slip through this life without having to get on this pc.

CAB - can't help you with your bull picture (land line ugh!) but can tell you that the iPOD was no where near as intuitive as I expected (being an old Apple person) - and the first one didn't work so I spent hours onthe phone with very nice people who knew nothing - but I ended up with an iPOD (Love it!) and a good sized credit (for my time) and a little boom box kinda case that works great in the barn - so I can blast Derek and the Dominos, and Dylan, Jimi Hendrix, Leon Redbone, Fleetwood Mac, etc and the cows think they are hippie bovines (the one with the love beads and the peace symbol ear tag loves it

 

[CAB]

DL, I would guess you are 5 years my senior. I had an 8 track player when everyone was getting cassette players in their cars. Steppin Wolf, Foreigner, Doobie Brother's, Grand Funk RailRoad, Neal Diamond, Elton John, America,Credence Clear Water Revival, just to name a few of the groups that were popular when I was bullet proof as RW put it. Never did get a cassette player, and don't have a IPOD for some reason. All of the kids walk around with their ears plugged so they don't have to listen. HUH?

 

[Show Heifer]

WAAAHHHH!!!!!!!!! I'm feeling left out!!!!
I STILL drive a truck with a cassette player, I don't own an iPOD, and am astounded when I can do anything "neat" with the computer!!!! Did I mention my cell phone is used for CALLS, and nothing else????

 

[DL]

WAAAHHHH!!!!!!!!! I'm feeling left out!!!!
I STILL drive a truck with a cassette player, I don't own an iPOD, and am astounded when I can do anything "neat" with the computer!!!! Did I mention my cell phone is used for CALLS, and nothing else????

Hey SH - I just got my iPOD (actually it is a Christmas present so I technically don't have it  so you have at least 20 years to get one (lol) (lol) (lol)
and my truck has a cassette player too and although there is a picture of the big red cow on my cell phone I use it for calls and voice mail! For my age I am a techno geek  ;D 8) :
you too can aspire to techno geekness!  (clapping) (clapping) (clapping)

 

[ROAD WARRIOR]

A few years ago the most high tech thing I could run was my digital scales, now I have a computer (that I'm marginal with at best) a cell phone (having a teen age daughter I have even learned to text message - slowly) that I do 95% of my business on and a truck that has a CD player in it ( my chore truck however has a hole in the dash where the AM radio used to be that matches the hole in the floor board. I'm really not sure what a IPOD or blackberry is other than I hear my daughter talking about them. However I do still take pride in the fact that I'm a techno dinosaur and could survive with out any of these things.

 

[DL]

A few years ago the most high tech thing I could run was my digital scales, now I have a computer (that I'm marginal with at best) a cell phone (having a teen age daughter I have even learned to text message - slowly) that I do 95% of my business on and a truck that has a CD player in it ( my chore truck however has a hole in the dash where the AM radio used to be that matches the hole in the floor board. I'm really not sure what a IPOD or blackberry is other than I hear my daughter talking about them. However I do still take pride in the fact that I'm a techno dinosaur and could survive with out any of these things.

RW - hate to burst your bubble but nobody with a cell phone (who can text, no matter how slowly) and a computer that they can use with or without a CD in the truck is a techno dinosaur - maybe a techno Neanderthal but not a dinosaur (dinosaurs use non electric typwriters or even write with a pencil and use a dial phone  ;D

 

[ROAD WARRIOR]

DL - Thanks for the upgrade, I think?

 

[CAB]

  Back to the original question. Why doesn't the American Angus Association call people on this B/S? To me this is the same issue as the TH/PHA defect, only doesn't have to be fatal. I think that when you have something like this going on and you don't call the producers on it, it surely leads to more, let's say , cheating. You all know how it goes, why can he/she do it and I can't thing. What  are your opinions?

 

[DL]

DL - Thanks for the upgrade, I think?

RW - yup an upgrade  You wear it well!

CAB - what year did you graduate HS? or what grade were you in when JFK was killed?
also, re the AAA - they can do that because they are THE ANGUS - kinda like Standord can buy golden toilet seats for some huge amount of $ - because of who they are 

 

[justintime]

WOW!!! I just get home from 10 days at Canadian Western Agribition, and as I  am trying to do some " catch up " on here, I see that I being called a senior citizen!!.. I will admit that after walking on cement for 10 days,with 14 head of cattle to look after, I have pains in places where many of you probably don't even have places. I had a great crew helping this year, but crews seem to work better if the owner works along side them.

I don't think of myself as being old, but the body I live in is starting to creek a little. I keep telling my body that it can't give out on me now, as I have far too many things to do yet. As the old saying goes... if I had known I was going to live this long, I probably would have taken a little better care of myself.  Now you know why I quit having birthdays several years ago. Now I just celebrate the anniversary of my 29th birthday.

CWA was a great show again. It was nice to see an increased number of our American friends visiting again. Several high selllers in several sales went to US buyers. Lots of other international visitors as well. I did some good business with New Zealand and Scotland as well as with breeders in Canada and the US. Quality of cattle in all breeds was the best I have ever seen.

I better go... seeing I am sooooooo old.... I better go take my meds and get ready for bed. After all it is almost 8 pm!

 

[ROAD WARRIOR]

JIT - Did you see the Red show? Who had the power up there? Oops forgot the Reds and Blacks show togather up there. Did you see the Brylor cattle - I look for them to be in Denver this year.

 

[dori36]

  Back to the original question. Why doesn't the American Angus Association call people on this B/S? To me this is the same issue as the TH/PHA defect, only doesn't have to be fatal. I think that when you have something like this going on and you don't call the producers on it, it surely leads to more, let's say , cheating. You all know how it goes, why can he/she do it and I can't thing. What  are your opinions?

There are 8 abnormalities ("genetic defects") stated in the rules of the American Angus Association which are not acceptable for registration of cattle.  Two of those are horns and scurs.  From the rulebook:
<< When a bull or cow is determined to possess the horn gene,progeny of such affected animals shall be ineligible for registration unless such progeny are tested in accordance with Association-approved guidelines and determined to be free of the genetic defect.>>  That's part of Rule 103, Animals Ineligible for Registration, and is on page 21 of the Breeders' Guide.
If a breeder comes up with a calf with any of the 8 stated defects, they are supposed to report the sire to the AAA.  Periodically, (quarrterly, maybe?) the names of sires that have produced calves carrying any of the defects are published in the Angus Journal.  Those sires offspring are not eligible for registration and registration of the sire itself is cancelled. 

 

[DL]

JIT - welcome back! How was the Maine show? Remember we are NOT senior citizens, we are the MATURE AND WISE (M&W) - we can still stay up til midnight! (but that calving check in the middle of the night in winter is getting older faster than I am )

dori - is it a rule that they really follow or is it just a rule that they use when it is politically appropriate?

 

[dori36]

JIT - welcome back! How was the Maine show? Remember we are NOT senior citizens, we are the MATURE AND WISE (M&W) - we can still stay up til midnight! (but that calving check in the middle of the night in winter is getting older faster than I am )

dori - is it a rule that they really follow or is it just a rule that they use when it is politically appropriate?

Well, obviously, I don't know every instance of every black hided bull claimed to be an Angus that has sired calves w/scurs or horns that is "getting away with it".  Like any other registry, it's only as good as its members.  If a member actually reports a bull that has sired a calf carrying one of the defects and proves it to the registry, the bull will be listed and registration pulled.  I'd guess that the  members that want to break the rules wouldn't report such a bull and who'd know.  Three S's to the calves!  I've seen the Angus Journal  issues that have the bulls listed so I know that at least some of the time, they do report and cancel registrations.  I also  know of a couple of cases where a small purchaser of semen got a defective calf, reported it, and the calf had to be dna'd to prove parentage.  Bull was "expunged".  Those who want to cheat, will.  The AAA isn't unique in having such members, right? 

 

[DL]

dori - is it a rule that they really follow or is it just a rule that they use when it is politically appropriate?

Well, obviously, I don't know every instance of every black hided bull claimed to be an Angus that has sired calves w/scurs or horns that is "getting away with it".  Like any other registry, it's only as good as its members.  If a member actually reports a bull that has sired a calf carrying one of the defects and proves it to the registry, the bull will be listed and registration pulled.  I'd guess that the  members that want to break the rules wouldn't report such a bull and who'd know.  Three S's to the calves!  I've seen the Angus Journal  issues that have the bulls listed so I know that at least some of the time, they do report and cancel registrations.  I also  know of a couple of cases where a small purchaser of semen got a defective calf, reported it, and the calf had to be dna'd to prove parentage.  Bull was "expunged".  Those who want to cheat, will.  The AAA isn't unique in having such members, right? 

Oh absolutely NOT!! What do they do with the offspring? I assume they become unregistered?? This could be an interesting political and economic deal - the AAA (IMVHO) hasn't been terrifically forthcoming re the dwarfism issue of fawn calf so I wondered how aggressive they were with the horned issue....money talks - in all breeds I suspect 

PS I forgot to ask - did the expunged bull die and come back to life or is that a Maine thing??

 

[justintime]

Renegade... in regard to your question about the Red Angus show at Agribition.
The Red and Black Angus have seperate shows here.... always have. They have the same registry and Association, but are seperate in all other ways. Quality of both reds and blacks was very high. Seems to be many more Angus breeders here with both reds and blacks now. Soo Line, Miller Wilson, Brylor,Six Mile,  and many others had cattle in both shows.

In the red show,Champion bull was Red Ter-Lon Fully Loaded 540R shown by Six Mile and Ter-Lon. He is one of the most impressive Red bulls I have seen. This bull went on to win the Royal Bank Supreme Challenge, where winning animals from all major shows in Canada and the US are eligible to compete in. He was a very popular winner.

Reserve bull was Red Northline Rev 341R shown by Northline Angus

In the Red females Ter-Ron had Champion female and Miller Wilson had Reserve. Both tremendous cows with calves at foot.

In the Black show Brylor had Champion bull with  SAR Fort Knox 11R.  He is an absolute tank on legs. I am not sure of his pedigree but heard that he has some red blood flowing through his body.
Champion female was Early sunset Elba 5R shown by Poley- Hall Partnership. ( Chris Poley is a well known auctioneer here in Canada , and Barry Hall is well known in Maine circles )

 

[Show Dad]

JIT - Thanks for the info. It seems that Brylor can pick some great genetics. Be it red or black.

 

[dori36]

<<PS I forgot to ask - did the expunged bull die and come back to life or is that a Maine thing??>>

DL, since the defects can be so much more serious than horns or scurs, (Dwfarsim, Osteoporosis, Double Muscling, Syndactyly, Heterochromia Irides (White-Eye), Horns, Scurs) that a bull that has produced any of them other than horns, hopefully, would be put down.  I don't personally know what the outcome of the bull was.  Offspring from the identified bull can no longer be registered w/the AAA.  Now, I'm sure that doesn't stop someone using him as a commercial Angus producer.  I see so many beef cattle sales stating that the black hided calves/cattle are Angus sired.  They don't always say "sired by REGISTERED Angus bulls".  I also know many, many good commercial producers (big ones - like over 1000 mother cows) that every year buy Angus bulls that could be registered but the certificates just don't matter.  What the bull produces does matter.  So, theoretically, there could be Angus bulls "out there" producing in commercial herds that 'could' carry the horn gene, wherever it came from.  And, lots of times some of those calves show up in club calf sales shown as sired by Angus bulls.

 

[CAB]

DL, I was 5 when JFK was shot. Half day of school was all I could take & all the poor teacher wanted or needed.