Canadian cattle

[justintime]

Shortybreeder makes some excellent points. It is harder to develop a market for bulls when you are a small breeder and only produce a few each year. That said, it is not impossible. When we found IDS Duke of Dublin in Ireland in the early 80s, my first question was " how come this bull has not been purchased by the many American breeders who have travelled to Ireland in recent months" The answer I got was simple. No one had seen this bull because he was raised by a clergyman who had 1 cow. He led this cow 6 miles to Quane's to get her bred to one of their bulls, then he led her back home again. ( a nice work out for most anyone). He kept Duke's mother behind his rectory and she provided milk for him. When Kevin Culhane finally found Duke he was about 14 months old and the clergyman did not want him to breed his mother. Kevin Culhane said that Duke was the best Irish Shorthorn bull in the country at that time. We purchased him for $25,000 US in 1983 so that was a pile of money at any time. We imported him into Canada, and decided we should display him in front of the Exchange Building at the Denver show. In the 5 days we had him on display we sold 1200 straws of semen at $35/ straw. ( I find it interesting that we did not have a single person question semen at $35/ straw in 1984 and today I have people tell me that the semen cost is too high!  What is with that?

 

[JTM]

JTM you seem very knowledgeable about the different facets of the breed, and I respect that. I think the issue with trying to unify the breeders and focusing on commercially accepted cattle is that it's very hard for us smaller operators to get into marketing seedstock for those buyers because many of them will only buy from large producers who do a lot of performance testing. A small breeder can have the bull with the greatest genetic potential in the US, but if he doesn't have a dozen contemporaries to show up then he doesn't look as good. This is where the jackpot cattle production comes in.

I think the issue is not so much a matter of breeders going into the show business, but rather an issue of so many new families coming into the breed, buying the showy stuff, and then breeding mutts for years until they eventually leave the business. I'll admit I almost fell into this trap, but have been fortunate enough to have a long-term mentor who took care to make sure I was breeding solid working cattle instead of following fads. I believe it is this mass production of mutt/reject show cattle flowing into sales barns that has destroyed the breeds reputation amongst commercial cattlemen.
So rather than pressuring old breeders, that are likely stuck in their ways, into changing the type of cattle they produce, we should be emphasizing the importance of mentoring new breeders. This will in turn help reduce risk for commercial buyers by reducing the number of low-performance cattle being traded.

(thumbsup) You are so correct with this statement about mentoring! I have been very concerned about our new breeders having a bad first experience and then deciding to go a whole other route. I think this is happening more than we realize. The question is how do we go about mentoring new breeders? Anybody have suggestions? I am an open book when it comes to cattle and anyone who buys cattle from me knows that. I feel like as breeders we need to be a lot more transparent about what is involved in raising our cattle. What can people expect? Is it normal to pull 50% of calves from heifers? Is it normal to have teats too large for the calf to latch on to? Some of these things are not being discussed because it may kill a sale. I've killed a lot of sales on my cattle over the years because of honesty. Most club calf buyers want to believe in something that is not reality. They are in the trap that you speak of.

 

[Okotoks]

I think there are herds of cattle around the world that are selected for beef production and the ability to survive in their environment. Often the same bloodlines are capable of surviving in diverse environments which is because they are selected for soundness, fertility and feed conversion.
Here are some hereford cattle from Saskatchewan that tick all the boxes for me!

https://issuu.com/braunranchltd/docs/2016_braun_catalogue_small/1?e=0

 

[Duncraggan]

Horned Herefords just have something 'extra', besides the horns that is!

 

[justintime]

I think there are herds of cattle around the world that are selected for beef production and the ability to survive in their environment. Often the same bloodlines are capable of surviving in diverse environments which is because they are selected for soundness, fertility and feed conversion.
Here are some hereford cattle from Saskatchewan that tick all the boxes for me!

https://issuu.com/braunranchltd/docs/2016_braun_catalogue_small/1?e=0

I agree that there are some awesome Horned Herefords in this part of the world. There are also lots of ordinary ones as well, but the good ones are really, really good. I have always admired the Braun cattle. They are raised in ranch country, in very practical conditions and have lots of performance and style. The bull that is pictured here is an absolute rip of a beef animal and he could be used as a model for most every breed. Of course, those who raise clubbies, may have a different opinion.

 

[librarian]

Beauty, like supreme dominion, Is but supported by opinion
Benjamin Franklin, in Poor Richard's Almanack, 1741

 

[RyanChandler]

I think functionality has an identifiable appearance.  I've always held that animals are either enabled or prohibited by their phenotype.  It doesn't matter if you're in Canada or Texas, if you place selection pressure on functional beef cattle characteristics, you will arrive at a particular phenotype.

http://www.bovineengineering.com/linera_male.html

 

[librarian]

Yes, I wanted to say something like beauty is a matter of opinion, but functionality can be measured...but when all else fails, quote Bob Dylan,
" if dogs run free, then what can't we?"
The most functional approach might be to just concentrate on making our own cattle better for our own purpose. I've found a lot of interesting breeders out there who just do their own thing.
Speaking of Gerald Fry, I have been seriously studying the British White breed.
These cattle seem to already have all the traits we are attempting to pull together in Shorthorn. Calving ease, low BW, superior carcass, attentiveness and docility.
http://www.bovineengineering.com/bull_komander.html
http://www.americanherbataurus.com/ahs/for-sale-misc
There was a British Breed called White Poll, way back, marked the same.
It's an island, these cattle are all related.

 

[shortybreeder]

I researched the British white breed as well, and found many breeders and the association claiming these wonderful things about the breed including what Librarian stated, some going so far as to claim purebred angus breeders were secretly using them to increase tenderness. After reading all these things I almost started my herd with British white cattle, but I was never able to find cattle that could hold themselves together over winter, or wean big calves, and the docility was a crapshoot. It was much easier for me to find quality shorthorns that I'd be proud to breed and market offspring from, which is why I'm now a shorthorn breeder, not a British white breeder.
Just my 2 cents on the British whites.

 

[librarian]

Shorty, I agree about the variation in quality.
The white park pattern is more of a killer at the sale barn than roan, so its another case of unless you have retained ownership or a certain finisher to buy them, its a tough situation.
However, someone is buying them.
http://britishcattle.com/WordPress/
I think this is a model program and terrific site preparation for a sale.
Back to body type, this one from their sale speaks to me.

 

[oakview]

I would be interested to learn what it's telling you.

 

[librarian]

Well, that's a good question because there are things about the picture that confuse me.
First, I like his capacity and masculinity, the way he appears short legged and stout. I like his head and just the way he knows he's a bull.
I think the shadows in the picture are unfortunate. His shoulder is dubious and its difficult to discern the angle of his hip. His top line gets buried in the horizon. The scrotum looks okay for a winter day?
But,
What I imagine he says to me is I will have a lot of heart girth, be an old fashioned low to the ground bull and will stay fat on grass. I will add dimension to females that tend to be leggy and hard doing. I will make good grass feeders from easy fleshing females. My imagination is vast, and sophomoric, I admit.

 

[librarian]

But if I was gambling on a white park colored animal I'd gamble on this Speckled Park from the Montana hinterland.
http://helena.craigslist.org/grd/5402399878.html