Cattle Breeds Question......

[Belties R Us]

We are new to the cattle industry. Currently we own 6 head of Angus and Crossbred cattle. In all honesty, none of them are spectacular they are at best average cattle. Our goal at the moment is to figure out where we want our cattle herd to go from here. I am a fan of shorthorn cattle and my dad likes the Simmentals. However, should we just stick with Angus as a breed? My dad doesn't like them because he believes that they are frailer boned and lighter muscled than other breeds. I know they are very popular and probably the easiest breed to sell or buy. Is there a big enough market to be able to sell different breeds? I have heard that Shorthorn cattle are not commercially usable. Maybe it's an ignorant question but why is that? What we are looking for is commercially marketable cattle that are maternal and usable in a cow calf setting. How do we distinguish between a good show heifer versus an good cow? Any opinions are appreciated. Thanks!

 

[Barry Farms]

Shorthorns are (can be) commercially useable but Nobody wants to buy one of the funny lookin roan calves at the sale barn, what makes them not very commercially viable is the large amount of money lost on their progeny if their roans, also many are rather large. With 6 head I wouldnt be too worried about selling by 'breed' because you said theyre just AVG cattle and I would say breed heifers to an easy calving Angus bull then 2nd calves up (if theyre big enough) breed them to a Sim. or Gelbvieh. Gelbvieh is good for breeding Longevity into your cattle which is what really makes you $money$. I would say a way to tell a show heifer from a good cow could be structure, power because a more powerful heifer is a better market heifer, thickness for the same reason, depth because that helps a cow consume more low quality forage to maintain a good body condition and that helps a good mother cow. But the real way to do it is...
...Time because only time will tell if a cow is a good producer and mother

 

[leanbeef]

My dad started with a commercial herd of cows just like you described. He and my grandpa farmed together and ran an Angus bull on very "average" English and English cross cows...Angus, Hereford, some black baldies and some had a little Shorthorn blood. In 1971, my dad started AIing to Simmental, Polled Hereford, and Limousin in order to cross breed and add performance. What he found at that time was that the Simmental cross calves outperformed everything else so much, he decided to pursue a registered Simmental herd.

The English cattle aren't exactly the same now as they were in 1971. There are Angus bulls with considerably more performance, but I am confident the best thing you could do on cows like you described is to use a continental breed like Simmental to cross breed. There are several that offer as much growth and the same improved carcass yield...the two things I've always appreciated about Simmental is the fact they are easier calving (in general) and more maternal. SimAngus is one of the most popular crosses in the gene pool right now...commercial breeders love the bulls AND the females, and feeders love the steers. I personally don't think there's a more ideal beef animal.If you're interested in registering your calves, most of the continental breeds also have an open herd book, allowing you to register percentage cattle and breed up to a purebred status. If you use Angus bulls on that herd, you'll always have commercial cattle. And yes, I happen to be a Simmental & SimAngus breeder, and I'll also say I appreciate good cattle regardless of what breed or what color they are. There are good ones and bad ones in most every breed.

My advice to you is based on a purely objective, commercial perspective. From a commercial standpoint, you'll do yourself a huge favor if you look towards one of those continental breeds on cows like that. Any of them would probably be better than using another English breed, i.e. Angus, Shorthorn, Hereford.

 

[Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR]

I think that Shorthorn is viable for you too. Only depends of what kind genetics will you use. Stay out of show/Clubies genetics as it are fakes. Look for a bull or semen of some real Shorthorn on US. I'm sure that you will read soon some breeders able to show you a good source. I live in Brasil but I see here and out here that cattle for to be commercially viable must be black, Shorthorns are not black. So you can try run by a new gene road with Shorthorns looking for a maternal line that ca be used as replacement heifers for others breeders or use almost all breeds available in US (same continetals) that are black.
Soon some Shorthorn breeders will give you more details and help you to get a way to follow.
Good luck from southern tip of Brazil.

 

[Duncraggan]

I still don't follow this colour 'thing' with cattle!

Justintime says he sells white Shorthorns in Canada because people are now wanting roans.  The US and Brazil seem to only want black cattle.  Here in South Africa, cattle must preferably be red as black and Bos Indicus cattle are discounted!

When it comes to the crux of the matter, does hide colour really matter?  A good carcase is just that, a good carcase, period!

It doesn't make any sense to me!

 

[Limiman12]

I still don't follow this colour 'thing' with cattle!

Justintime says he sells white Shorthorns in Canada because people are now wanting roans.  The US and Brazil seem to only want black cattle.  Here in South Africa, cattle must preferably be red as black and Bos Indicus cattle are discounted!

When it comes to the crux of the matter, does hide colour really matter?  A good carcase is just that, a good carcase, period!

It doesn't make any sense to me!

It should be just about the carcas, but angus is black, and angus is king when it comes to marketing their breed.    Despite not having the feed conversion or carcas traits of other breeds,  "Bred angus" makes a heifer sell for more, and black feeders bring more then their red counter part, and ALOT more then one that has chrome or is roan.....

 

[Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR]

I still don't follow this colour 'thing' with cattle!

Justintime says he sells white Shorthorns in Canada because people are now wanting roans.  The US and Brazil seem to only want black cattle.  Here in South Africa, cattle must preferably be red as black and Bos Indicus cattle are discounted!

When it comes to the crux of the matter, does hide colour really matter?  A good carcase is just that, a good carcase, period!

It doesn't make any sense to me!

Here in Brazil people are looking black cattle (Aberdeen Angus) due two points; One is the strong marketing that breed society show here, saling an idea that Angus is the unique one that has marbling and high  meat quality; Another point are the bonus paid by the Beef Breed Program, paid for Angus crosses at slaughter and as consequence for calves and steers too.
The black cattle grow up after an open space on industry left by Charolais. Abatoir wish to refuse white (Charolais) cattle due lack cover fat. At that time many "bussiness" men from São Paulo with lots of money and none knowledge about taurine breeds, bring the Canadian/American idea that Angus is the best breed, a complete breed.
Unfortunatelly money have your weight and a strong marketing was did on midia. So, many people want black cattle, many people due lack knowledgement of another breeds.
Also Shorthorn breed show a very bad phenotype, with narrows and meatless hindquarters due excessive american genetics, not an attractive beast at least!
Brazil is a huge country and almost 90% country is perfect for Indicus cattle - tropical. Angus is used primarily for crossbreeding with this huge indicus cows population. On 2012 Nelore breed sold 3,320,598 semen straws, being 263,134 from polled Nelore. Aberdeen Angus sold 2,879,188 straws, being 541,091 from Red Angus and 2,338,097 from black Angus.
Brahman sold 177,773 straws; Guzerá (Kankrej) 136,915 straws.
Polled Herefords sold 122,104 and Hereford 5,963.
Shorthorn sold 2,526 straws.

So, strong marketing and a Beef Brand program that pay a bonus are a good reason for use Angus on cross. If another breeds show bonification and marketing based on real good cattle, will progress without doubt.

Breeders want "green" cattle, hide is a consequence!

 

[CWCCattle]

We are new to the cattle industry. Currently we own 6 head of Angus and Crossbred cattle. In all honesty, none of them are spectacular they are at best average cattle. Our goal at the moment is to figure out where we want our cattle herd to go from here. I am a fan of shorthorn cattle and my dad likes the Simmentals. However, should we just stick with Angus as a breed? My dad doesn't like them because he believes that they are frailer boned and lighter muscled than other breeds. I know they are very popular and probably the easiest breed to sell or buy. Is there a big enough market to be able to sell different breeds? I have heard that Shorthorn cattle are not commercially usable. Maybe it's an ignorant question but why is that? What we are looking for is commercially marketable cattle that are maternal and usable in a cow calf setting. How do we distinguish between a good show heifer versus an good cow? Any opinions are appreciated. Thanks!

My Dad always told me that the best type of cattle are the ones that you like.  If you like them enough you will be able to market them easily.  On that note we ran a feedlot for a number of years and had Maine/Angus cross calves that outperformed all the other animals and I really liked the way they looked.  I talked to another feedlot manager that thought the only thing better than that cross was Maine/Herford.  Now I'm a fullblood Maine breeder, I love the cattle and I haven't had a problem with sales so far even though theyre not black.  But ya pick something you like and run with it!

 

[JTM]

My dad started with a commercial herd of cows just like you described. He and my grandpa farmed together and ran an Angus bull on very "average" English and English cross cows...Angus, Hereford, some black baldies and some had a little Shorthorn blood. In 1971, my dad started AIing to Simmental, Polled Hereford, and Limousin in order to cross breed and add performance. What he found at that time was that the Simmental cross calves outperformed everything else so much, he decided to pursue a registered Simmental herd.
The English cattle aren't exactly the same now as they were in 1971. There are Angus bulls with considerably more performance, but I am confident the best thing you could do on cows like you described is to use a continental breed like Simmental to cross breed. There are several that offer as much growth and the same improved carcass yield...the two things I've always appreciated about Simmental is the fact they are easier calving (in general) and more maternal. SimAngus is one of the most popular crosses in the gene pool right now...commercial breeders love the bulls AND the females, and feeders love the steers. I personally don't think there's a more ideal beef animal.If you're interested in registering your calves, most of the continental breeds also have an open herd book, allowing you to register percentage cattle and breed up to a purebred status. If you use Angus bulls on that herd, you'll always have commercial cattle. And yes, I happen to be a Simmental & SimAngus breeder, and I'll also say I appreciate good cattle regardless of what breed or what color they are. There are good ones and bad ones in most every breed.
My advice to you is based on a purely objective, commercial perspective. From a commercial standpoint, you'll do yourself a huge favor if you look towards one of those continental breeds on cows like that. Any of them would probably be better than using another English breed, i.e. Angus, Shorthorn, Hereford.

Sorry Leanbeef, I've got to disagree about your opinion of the best cross. Now I understand and agree that breeding a continental as the third cross for a terminal animal would be ideal, but I believe if you're looking for maternal performance with superior carcass quality, Shorthorn x Angus is really hard to contend with. Merry13, give me a call if you want to know more about commercially acceptable Shorthorn cattle. I will have a bunch of them for you to check out here in Ohio this fall. I say get some F1 Angus Shorthorn cows by breeding Shorthorn first, and then buy a Simmental bull. Everyone would be happy! ;D

 

[Lucky_P]

I'm with leanbeef AND JTM.
It's hHard to beat that Simmental-Angus cross, both on the maternal side of the equation, and in performance of the feeder calves. I've been breeding commercial Simmental/ SimAngus cattle for nearly 30 years, and have moved back to Simmental sires after 6-8 years of using Angus sires.
But...we're also using red Shorthorn sires over most of the  high-percentage Angus cows in the herd to make those ANxSH mamas, to be bred to black Simmental bulls for production of terminal feeder calves.

 

[Duncraggan]

We are new to the cattle industry. Currently we own 6 head of Angus and Crossbred cattle. In all honesty, none of them are spectacular they are at best average cattle. Our goal at the moment is to figure out where we want our cattle herd to go from here. I am a fan of shorthorn cattle and my dad likes the Simmentals. However, should we just stick with Angus as a breed? My dad doesn't like them because he believes that they are frailer boned and lighter muscled than other breeds. I know they are very popular and probably the easiest breed to sell or buy. Is there a big enough market to be able to sell different breeds? I have heard that Shorthorn cattle are not commercially usable. Maybe it's an ignorant question but why is that? What we are looking for is commercially marketable cattle that are maternal and usable in a cow calf setting. How do we distinguish between a good show heifer versus an good cow? Any opinions are appreciated. Thanks!

My Dad always told me that the best type of cattle are the ones that you like.  If you like them enough you will be able to market them easily.  On that note we ran a feedlot for a number of years and had Maine/Angus cross calves that outperformed all the other animals and I really liked the way they looked.  I talked to another feedlot manager that thought the only thing better than that cross was Maine/Herford.  Now I'm a fullblood Maine breeder, I love the cattle and I haven't had a problem with sales so far even though theyre not black.  But ya pick something you like and run with it!

This post makes about the most sense I've read in a while!  Passionate about your breed of cattle!

 

[ty378]

I disagree with the whole simmental thing, they are easy calving and have changed there breed science crossing them with angus now they are all mostly black, with the odd red one, what happened to your full bloods? I was on a tour with a lady up here in Canada and we won't to see a herd of full blood sementals and she asked the guy what they were, pretty bad. Angus are probably the easiest breed to sell due to the marketing ang the concistancey of the breed. I would stik I out with the angus but in the end its preference,

 

[BlkAngus]

I disagree with the whole simmental thing, they are easy calving and have changed there breed science crossing them with angus now they are all mostly black, with the odd red one, what happened to your full bloods? I was on a tour with a lady up here in Canada and we won't to see a herd of full blood sementals and she asked the guy what they were, pretty bad. Angus are probably the easiest breed to sell due to the marketing ang the concistancey of the breed. I would stik I out with the angus but in the end its preference,

She had to ask what they were? Didn't she know what cows are?  ???  (lol)