In Georgia the number of exhibitors and cattle are dropping fast. It seems like kids are either graduating or just quitting showing and no one wants to do it anymore. I'm sure much of this has to do with the rising cost of feed. What are the numbers looking like in other states? Are the number of exhibitors in your state dropping quickly like they are here?
Cattle numbers at shows going down?
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DLD
Well-known member
A year ago I voiced the same concerns, but there doesn't seem to be a real noticeable difference here in OK. As a matter of fact, I know of several new feeders nearby.
Not sure how many others do it like we do, but we've always fed a couple more steers than we needed to show - just in case we needed one, and we never have any trouble selling them for beef. Lately I'm less inclined to want to feed those "spares"...
Not sure how many others do it like we do, but we've always fed a couple more steers than we needed to show - just in case we needed one, and we never have any trouble selling them for beef. Lately I'm less inclined to want to feed those "spares"...
rackranch
Well-known member
I have noticed a slow decline here in Texas over the past five years. Shows that had big numbers at one time just don't pull in the crowds anymore. I've seen one of the biggest shows we attend decline around 50% over this time period and others that don't exist anymore. Most people blame the economy as the biggest factor in this decline. There is a small group of people that the economy has not affected and they tend to have the top end steers. Its hard for a family to load up, travel, and have all the expenses associated with a show to get there and see the same circus of fitters with these select families time after time. Its also difficult for the average hard working family to be competitive at most of these shows. I've had numerous people tell me they don't show as much because it has become a dog and pony show. They tend to just hit a couple of local shows just before their county or state show.
We are just getting into showing, but I'm told that the numbers at the shows here in Nebraska are fairly "steady", but the numbers are being held steady by families that are traveling in from outside the area. The county fair numbers are way down.
For us, I would say that we fall into that classification that will hit a few close shows before the county fair. We know we won't win, but can usually win a class or a breed and sneak into a drive here or there. That works for us because that is our goal. We really just want to be in the hunt at our county fair.
The families that I feel bad for are the families that don't understand the program. It's always hard for me to see the disappointment on their faces when they can't compete with people that do this for a living...not a hobby. Those people know how to make one good enough if he isn't, and it's tough to compete with that.
For us, I would say that we fall into that classification that will hit a few close shows before the county fair. We know we won't win, but can usually win a class or a breed and sneak into a drive here or there. That works for us because that is our goal. We really just want to be in the hunt at our county fair.
The families that I feel bad for are the families that don't understand the program. It's always hard for me to see the disappointment on their faces when they can't compete with people that do this for a living...not a hobby. Those people know how to make one good enough if he isn't, and it's tough to compete with that.
CAB
Well-known member
iowabeef said:
I would have to disagree with this statement. It hasn't been too long ago that the State Fair took 2 days to sort through 1100 to 1300 head. Now the count is easily less than 500 head. The county fair numbers are also way down in comparison to not very long ago. Between calves costing too much and feed and energy prices on top of the time that it takes many blue collar families just can't do it any longer. $-H is far from what it started out to be, but you sure don't need to be in 4-H to show really either.
Bradenh
Well-known member
rackranch said:
couldnt have been said any better for the situation in texas. i know we do alot more sitting at home than we used too
At our county fair, which is terminal with the kids keeping of their steers to go on to state fair, the buyers have made a real effort to keep the floor at around $3,000. This basically works out to a donation of $1300-1400 to the kid above market price. If a kid buys his steer for $1000, feeds it for $1000, he or she can put $1000 in the bank for the effort. If the kid buys the steer for $2500, they are going to lose money on the deal. If the parent buys a somewhat competitive steer for $4000 and the feed for another $1000, the kid can maybe sneak in and win a class at one of the bigger shows, but at county fair, even if they have the grand champ they will still only sell the steer for $4000-5500. Some counties do not have near as good of a sale as we do and some do much better. However, the economics of showing cattle is not very good. The economics of trying to be even halfway competitive at the bigger shows is really out of reach for most folks.
Nonetheless, we try to hit a couple of the bigger shows because that is where our showman learns humility and figures out what he needs to be more competitive with what he has to work with. Taking first or second in class is a big deal at these shows. We hit the smaller jackpots where we are more competitive and to keep on tuning up for county and state fairs. Winning a jackpot at the little shows almost covers the entry fees and fitting supplies.
Some neighbor kids buy 4-5 steers (they have a lot of kids) at a little above market price in the fall and then do a really good job visiting buyers and sell their steers for $3500-$4000 even though they are lucky to place in the middle of their class at county fair. They are probably clearing $1500-2000 a piece, but they accept the fact that it will be difficult to win much with a $1000 steer. They don't go to jackpots -- only county fair to show and get their animals sold.
Nonetheless, we try to hit a couple of the bigger shows because that is where our showman learns humility and figures out what he needs to be more competitive with what he has to work with. Taking first or second in class is a big deal at these shows. We hit the smaller jackpots where we are more competitive and to keep on tuning up for county and state fairs. Winning a jackpot at the little shows almost covers the entry fees and fitting supplies.
Some neighbor kids buy 4-5 steers (they have a lot of kids) at a little above market price in the fall and then do a really good job visiting buyers and sell their steers for $3500-$4000 even though they are lucky to place in the middle of their class at county fair. They are probably clearing $1500-2000 a piece, but they accept the fact that it will be difficult to win much with a $1000 steer. They don't go to jackpots -- only county fair to show and get their animals sold.
It has gotten very expensive, in the month of march we spent over $1000 for entry fees alone. When you reconcile your check book at the end of the month and relize what you spent you think a little more before heading out to the next jackpot.
Numbers at Tx majors were down from previous recent years by a few percent. I suspect feed prices are pushing some kids that just want to show to other species.
Steer prices in Tx this spring have been way higher than ever. I'd wager there are probably way over 100 hd bringing more than 10k and I'm probably undershooting that. There may be that many over 20k.
Steer prices in Tx this spring have been way higher than ever. I'd wager there are probably way over 100 hd bringing more than 10k and I'm probably undershooting that. There may be that many over 20k.
dcbehle
Well-known member
I'm in the "stable numbers" camp. We live in central Nebraska and our county fair has to be one of the top shows in the state for numbers and quality. We've been showing for six years and the numbers entered each year is relatively stable. We may have lost 3-5% in market animals but have more than made up for that decline in breeding stock.
The Nebraska Cattlemen's Classic junior show had well over 500 entries this year and those numbers are up over recent years. They have done a nice job of reducing entry prices and still offering top shelf prizes/money. This was our first year exhibiting at the Norfolk show in January and I don't know how they could have fit more animals into that facility.
While costs are very expensive, especially for us hobby cow-hands, we value the investment in our kids. Our kids must buy their own market animals and have done up profit and loss statements and balance sheets on their cattle operations each year. They started this when they went to Farm Credit to get operating loans and have continued it for records purposes. While we help out on feed costs, they have learned the value of investing in their cattle carefully. Our son was very surprised the first year he lost money on his market animals, but still was surprised that his networth had grown based on his breeding stock. These lessons far outweigh the success they have had in the show ring. We've also been very blessed with the results we've had in the show ring and have gotten better each year based more on our growing knowledge than on the larger investments the kids have made in purchasing cattle. Our best success yet was on a calf that nearly went to the sale barn and ended up as reserve champion out of 170 market animals at our fair.
Bottom line is that there are so many benefits in having the kids vested in their project and not having it handed to them. I'd match our son's joy and passion for the cattle industry with anyone's even though his has not won a show yet. He still has this year to try and win! ;D
The Nebraska Cattlemen's Classic junior show had well over 500 entries this year and those numbers are up over recent years. They have done a nice job of reducing entry prices and still offering top shelf prizes/money. This was our first year exhibiting at the Norfolk show in January and I don't know how they could have fit more animals into that facility.
While costs are very expensive, especially for us hobby cow-hands, we value the investment in our kids. Our kids must buy their own market animals and have done up profit and loss statements and balance sheets on their cattle operations each year. They started this when they went to Farm Credit to get operating loans and have continued it for records purposes. While we help out on feed costs, they have learned the value of investing in their cattle carefully. Our son was very surprised the first year he lost money on his market animals, but still was surprised that his networth had grown based on his breeding stock. These lessons far outweigh the success they have had in the show ring. We've also been very blessed with the results we've had in the show ring and have gotten better each year based more on our growing knowledge than on the larger investments the kids have made in purchasing cattle. Our best success yet was on a calf that nearly went to the sale barn and ended up as reserve champion out of 170 market animals at our fair.
Bottom line is that there are so many benefits in having the kids vested in their project and not having it handed to them. I'd match our son's joy and passion for the cattle industry with anyone's even though his has not won a show yet. He still has this year to try and win! ;D
DLD
Well-known member
Now I do think numbers at jackpots around here have declined a bunch over the last several years. Many of our bigger jackpot shows have died off, others very nearly so. As others have said, it's hard for the average family to compete with the pro's, and the steadily rising expenses have made it even less attractive. It fluctuates up and down somewhat from year to year and from one show to the next, but the long term trend seems to be declining numbers.
Chambero, several of us got to speculating about the price of steers in OK. Some believe there may be a hundred $10K steers that stay here. I'm not sure of that, but if you drop that to $7K, it could get closer to 200. $2500 - 3500 used to be enough to be competitive, but now it's almost non-existent. People want a <$2K project or any thoughts of breaking even go out the window and it becomes whatever it takes.
Chambero, several of us got to speculating about the price of steers in OK. Some believe there may be a hundred $10K steers that stay here. I'm not sure of that, but if you drop that to $7K, it could get closer to 200. $2500 - 3500 used to be enough to be competitive, but now it's almost non-existent. People want a <$2K project or any thoughts of breaking even go out the window and it becomes whatever it takes.
DLD said:
I have been starting to think this "in the back of my mind", and I have just about got myself convinced to do it......next year we are not going to buy a steer during sale season. Not one. We are going to show absolutely the very last thing standing in the pens. I am going to buy the leftovers and that is it. I honestly believe that there are so many good calves worth the money that just get passed over. I saw 3 this year that are better than anything we bought and were sold cheaper than anything we bought as well. One of them won his division in the Prospect Show in Denver. It is going to take everything I have to do this, but that is what I am going to do!
DLD
Well-known member
Tallcool1, I've thought about that myself. Usually I don't get in any hurry, and we picked up the steer that we got in the sale at OYE this year pretty late and well worth the money.
Doesn't stop me from buying one anytime if I think it's the right deal though (and btw, the right deal for us is a lot less than that $7K-10K I was speculating about earlier).
Doesn't stop me from buying one anytime if I think it's the right deal though (and btw, the right deal for us is a lot less than that $7K-10K I was speculating about earlier).
We have been kicking this very issue around in our local Cattlemen's group. Seems that most of it hinges on apathy and kids being busy with everything other than animal agriculture. The parents interest only takes it so far. We have been trying to give animals away for the last three years and have only had a handful of kids apply. This year we went so far as paying for a portion of the feed and had to beg two kids to apply. This is not just for calves either, we have tried to get people to apply for our $1,000.00 scholarship and have had to beg and extend deadlines just to get applicants. We finally got three to apply a couple of years ago and awarded all three scholarships. Wondering if anyone else is having these types of problems too and what they are doing to help foster interest in showing beef cattle and animal agriculture.
RyanChandler
Well-known member
rackranch said:
Why would you expect a cattle show to be any different than a dog and pony show? People in the near future will have to accept the fact that showing is a hobby of the affluent and enroll their children in a hobby that's more inline with their family's economic class. Too many people trying to keep up with the jones'. I've been saving for an aluminum trailer for 2 years now and it might be another 2 before I drop that kind of money. I went to ft worth show this year and just walked through the sea of trailers parked by exhibitors - these people are either a) loaded or b) max extended out the ass. The average trailer there was prolly 20 grand. Not to mention the $60k diesel pulling it. Quit lying to yourselves, parading around a show calf has nothing to do with animal agriculture. It has just become another venue for the haves to flaunt their shit.
Regarding the previous comment about the "haves". We are a middle class family that loves showing cattle. It's about choices for us. Our vacations are at shows, we don't own a boat or go on a cruise. Showing is about spending time with our family. Where else can you go off and leave thousands of dollars worth of equipment and know that it will be there when you get back. My daughter gets to be with other kids that are up at the crack of dawn washing calves, not sleeping till noon. It's definitely not about a profit or even break even. For us it's knowing that every buckle, banner, or plaque is earned from hard work.
rtmcc
Well-known member
Amen! Same here!okiegirl said:
At the first spring jackpot we made it to a couple of weeks ago it was raining sideways and 34*. they had record numbers with 367 hd checked in and over 200 exhibitors! All major breeds were well represented with heifer numbers larger than market cattle.
Somedays it does feel like the same group of elite with the best staff always win. But thats because often times they have the best calf that is the most ready.
We proved that it's not just the elite pro's that can win. We took 3 hd and had Champion Angus steer, a 2nd place Angus hfr and Champion Commercial hfr! All home raised. All fit and clipped by the kids and I. And we only calve 20 cows a year!
Now we work pretty hard at it and have been practicing for a few years but it is possible, even with the big professional boys there.
I know it's tough to find the time. Our kids play sports and are involved in everything too. Tina and I both work full time plus taking care of our other stock. But when we do get a minute to work on show stock we work pretty hard on it. We've learned a lot watching and talking to those that do seem to win a lot.
It's possible. Just keep at tit!
Ron
<beer> <cowboy>
DLD
Well-known member
Despite the comments about the pro's or the have's, I have to disagree with xbar's comment that it "has nothing to do with animal agriculture". For some, I'll agree that it's nothing more than a hobby. But believe it or not, there are still kids doing it for the right reasons - because they love animals and agriculture (and aspire to a career/life involved with them), because they're learning about responsibility, sportsmanship, life and death and a whole lot of other things and having a great time doing it. Lot's of families still do it because they treasure the time spent together, and want their kids to be doing something with purpose, not just playing video games or getting in trouble. Not everybody feels the need to do it with a $60k truck and a $20K (+, have you priced those lately?) trailer - the one's that do would prob'ly be driving close to the same $ up and down the road no matter what they were doing. Part of the beauty of the thing is that there's room for everybody. Now I know that it's not very likely that a "have not" is going to win a major steer show these days, but it's certainly possible to compete. Sometimes you kinda just have to learn to choose your battles.
RyanChandler
Well-known member
I had that same mentality in high school. And then a couple years later I found out there was Denver, NAILE, the Junior Nationals and then it made winning my class at some Barney farm show pretty insignificant. A few years ago I wanted to get into team roping. I soon found out that you can be the best roper in the world but if you can't afford that high dollar header, you're beat before you start. I didn't get sour about it, I just came to the realization that I couldn't afford to compete in that hobby so I took my time, money, and effort elsewhere.
