COMMANDER IN CHIEF

[librarian]

Sorry, but I am still wondering who was Commander in Chief?

 

[sue]

Dual purpose bull owned by Haumont Shorthorns

 

[librarian]

I had been thinking this same Commander in Chief bull could not have gotten around so much, but the breeding says maybe it is the same bull I was reading about in the Meriwong Royal Grant thread.. What is the vintage on him? Where did he come from?


        x1953745 DNA-N DUNBLANE CORONET

Sire: x2080477 DNA-N MATCHLESS CORONET

x1880872 DNA-N FOREST MATCHLESSS 5TH

x1840304 DNA-N LEE DALE COLLYNIE
x1977200 DNA-N CEREMONIOUS REFEREE
x1846719 DNA-N ROSEWOOD VIOLET 5TH
Dam: x2100560 DNA-N LADY GOLDEN 5TH
x1477814 DNA-N ROSEWOOD RENOWN
x1761748 DNA-N LADY GOLDEN
x1305888 DNA-N ROYAL ROSEMARY

 

[oakview]

I believe the Commander in Chief in those old pedigrees is entirely different than the Commander in Chief 96 owned by the Haumonts. 

 

[Okotoks]

There is 50 years between those two bulls, the first from the early fifties or possibly 40's and the second born in 1996!

 

[librarian]

There is Commander in Chief x2223662, breeder "Pendleton & Co." He is red and polled and no birthdate. This is his pedigree above (kind of garbled)
And the there is the Commander in Chief 96 bull, which as okotoks points out, could not be the one I am asking about.
So, is x2223662 the bull in question?
This photo says " Oakwood Predictor x by Commander in Chief x, 1952, International Polled Shorthorn reserve champion bull"
It's not that I am in love with the bull in the photo, it's that part about 'by Commander in Chief' that just has me unreasonably curious about how he fits into the picture.
Thanks for your patience with a persistent, if often misguided, student of the breed.

 

[librarian]

Okay, I guess I'm not crazy. Here he is, and the Oakwood Determination bull was sired by him. I looked at his progeny to see where he went and he went to Oakwood so it's all making a little sense. I suppose semen went to Australia to produce Meriwong Royal Grant?
Really, I just wondered where he came from.


            OAKWOOD DETERMINATION (A.S.H.B.) Red M54/52324 
    HIGHBANK DETERMINATION IMP. IN DAM.U.S.A.! (P) Red M57/02793 
            CEREMONIOUS DOROTHY 5TH (IMP. U.S.A.) (P) Roan F57/05683 
Sire: HIGHBANK ROYAL DUKE (P) Red Little White M57/03734 
            COMMANDER IN CHIEF (A.S.H.B.) Red M54/23662 
    OAKWOOD LAVENDER 27TH (IMP U S A) (P) Red Little White F57/06188 
          GLEN KNOLLS LAVENDER 4TH (A.S.H.B.) Roan F54/92503 
MERIWONG ROYAL GRANT (P) Red M59/01381 
            GUNDIBRI LADDIE 28TH (P) Roan M57/00527 
    GUNNAWARRA LADDIE 6TH (P) Roan M57/00895 
          GUNNAWARRA MAY (P) Red F57/01647 
Dam: MERIWONG ADELE (P) Roan F57/08513 
          GUNNAWARRA RADIANT 6TH (P) Red M57/00411 
    MERIWONG AMENITY (P) Roan F57/05167 
          BOGAN AMENITY (P) White F57/03299

 

[oakview]

In the 1935 issue of Shorthorn World I've referenced earlier, there are several bulls which had been, according to the magazine, part of an exportation of Shorthorns to Australia.  I think I mentioned a Ceremonious (Leemon) bull from their ad that was sold to Australia.  I had semen from a Dual Purpose bull at one time that was collected I believe in 1948, but I don't know how much earlier that technology was available.  It was probably more likely that the actual bulls, and females, were exported to Australia in the 30's than semen, but perhaps someone else has more knowledge than I.  I'm reaching the conclusion that live animals were exported to Australia in the 30's based on the information from the 1935 Shorthorn World mentioning some specific animals that made the trip.

 

[Okotoks]

Yes those Commander in Chief's were either imported into Australia directly or imported in dam to Australia. Shows in their registration #s.

 

[librarian]

Looks like it's right in front of me, but sometimes that is the hardest stuff to see.
Isn't it neat, though, that Oakview would see pictures of some of this importation or a very similar one in his old Shorthorn World and the genetics would still be in use in Canada via the Australian relative Meriwong Royal Grant.
Thanks to all. Commander in Chief remains a little enigmatic, but it seems he is part of that Marshall Sultan cross I'm studying that just won't quit.

            OAKWOOD DETERMINATION (A.S.H.B.) Red M54/52324 
    HIGHBANK DETERMINATION IMP. IN DAM.U.S.A.! (P) Red M57/02793 
            CEREMONIOUS DOROTHY 5TH (IMP. U.S.A.) (P) Roan F57/05683 
Sire: HIGHBANK ROYAL DUKE (P) Red Little White M57/03734 
            COMMANDER IN CHIEF (A.S.H.B.) Red M54/23662 
    OAKWOOD LAVENDER 27TH (IMP U S A) (P) Red Little White F57/06188 
          GLEN KNOLLS LAVENDER 4TH (A.S.H.B.) Roa

 

[shorthorngeek]

The Commander-in-Chief bull which appears in the pedigree of Highbank Royal Duke was bred by Pendleton & Co. (R.A. Chiles, Mt Sterling, KY) and purchased as a 6-week-old calf at the side of his dam by Oakwood Stock Farm (Paul Teegardin, Ashville, OH) in the dispersion of the Chiles herd in 1944. His date of birth was Jan. 21, 1944.

He was sold in the November 1944 Oakwood Sale to Clare B. Turner in Michigan for $1100.00. Several years later, after seeing his calves at the Turner farm, Teegardin tried to repurchase him for use in the Oakwood herd. Turner refused to sell him outright, but agreed to trade him for a bull suitable for use on his daughters.

In 1949, Oakwood sold one-half interest in Commander-in-Chief to W.H. McCeney, Jr., Silver Springs, MD.

At Oakwood, Commander-in-Chief sired a number of champions, including Oakwood Predictor, 1951 International reserve champion bull; Oakwood Myrtle 4th, 1952 International reserve champion female; and Oakwood Maximum, 1956 International reserve senior champion bull. Another son, Oakwood Regulator, was undefeated in class at the 1955 shows. Oakwood Determination, the son which sired Highbank Determination (sire of Highbank Royal Duke, was the record-selling Polled Shorthorn bull at auction back in the '50's, at $10.500 to M.E. Beman & Sons of Ohio. He died at only 4 years of age.

Commander-in-Chief's dam, Lady Golden 5th, went on to produce a number of top bulls and females at Oakwood. I have done a bit of research on this cow and would be glad to email further details upon request.

Incidentally, Oakwood Conductor, the top-selling bull in the Oakwood Dispersion in 1964, was out of a daughter of Lady Golden 5th, Oakwood Lady Golden 5th. This double-bred grandson of the 1955 International grand champion Creekland Lancer was purchased by Armour & Co. and subsequently became one of the first three Shorthorn bulls to qualify as a Certified Meat Sire. Roy Lovaas in Minnesota had several calves by Conductor from a Haumont cow several years ago. Photos were on his website, which has apparently been removed from the web.

 

[librarian]

Thank you for that excellent and detailed information. I hope you are writing a book.
I would like to know more about Lady Golden 5th, this is fascinating.

 

[shorthorngeek]

The information on Commander-in-Chief I posted earlier was from an anonymous article (probably written by Hal Longley) in the August 10, 1949 "Progress number" of "The Shorthorn World" and from other issues of that magazine and some old Oakwood Sale catalogues.

Bill McCeney of Sporting Field Farms, who bought one-half interest in the bull, wrote in a letter to Hal Longley, which was used in his ad in the same issue, the following about C-i-C:

          I recently visited Oakwood and saw the bull Commander in Chief x. Right
          then I decided I had found the bull I was seeking. Paul Teegardin believed
          in Commander in Chief x when he brought him back to Oakwood last fall. He
          still believes in him, and many of their top cows are mated to Chief. What a

           
         

 

[shorthorngeek]

Sorry about the half-post! to continue:

        bull! Red as they come - deep, short-coupled, full-quartered, smooth as a
        calf and unusually thick in his covering! Sire's head! Yes! and with it bone
        bone and substance.

The record of Commander-in-Chief's progeny at the International Livestock Show in Chicago was summarized in the 1958 Oakwood Sale catalogue:

1950 Oakwood Mainstay, reserve champion bull, second senior bull calf, exported to Australia at $6500; Oakwood Reporter, first junior bull calf; Oakwood Myrtle 4th, first senior heifer calf; Oakwood Predictor, second junior bull calf

1951 Oakwood Predictor, reserve champion bull, first summer yearling bull, retained at Oakwood; Oakwood Myrtle 4th, second senior yearling heifer; Oakwood Graceful Miss, second summer yearling heifer; Oakwood Good Fortune 2nd, second senior heifer calf; Oakwood Gwynne, second junior heifer calf

1952 Oakwood Myrtle 4th, reserve champion female, first two year old heifer; Oakwood Contender, second junior yearling bull; Oakwood Harmonier, second junior bull calf

1953 Oakwood Flora 3rd, reserve champion female, first senior yearling heifer; Oakwood Gracefu Miss, reserve senior champion female, first two year old heifer; Oakwood Majesty, reserve junior champion bull, first senior bull calf (later 1955 Congress champion bull sold to Frank Johnson, Red Deer, Alberta); Oakwood Conquest, second junior yearling bull; Oakwood
High Born, second junior bull calf

1954 Oakwood Majesty, second senior yearling bull; Oakwood Regulator, second junior bull calf

1955 Oakwood Regulator, first junior yearling bull

1956 Oakwood Maximum, reserve senior champion bull

Group awards: First prize Get of Sire 1950-1951-1953, second in 1952; first Pair of Females 1952; first Pair of Yearlings 1951-1953; first Pair of Calves 1950-1953; first prize Two Bulls
1951-1952; second Two Bulls 1950-1953

The dam of Commander-in-Chief, when bred to the imported (from Scotland) Oakwood herd bull, Gosshall Ximenes, produced the many times champion Oakwood Leader, also used as a herd bull at Oakwood.

The record of Leader's progeny at the International includes: 1954 reserve champion bull Circleview Leader, used at Oakwood; 1950 reserve champion female Oakwood Gladness; 1950 first junior yearling bull Oakwood Bequest; 1950 first summer yearling bull Oakwood Loyal Leader; 1950 first junior heifer calf; 1951 first junior bull calf Oakwood Headliner (sired 1955 Congress champion female for R.L. Godwin of Alabama); 1951 second junior yearling heifer; 1952 second summer yearling bull, used in Smalstig and Campbell herds in Pennsylvania; 1952 second two year old heifer; also first Junior Get of Sire 1950, second Get of Sire 1950

Commander-in-Chief and Oakwood Leader sired the first prize Pair of Females in 1950-51-52, with Oakwood Myrtle 4th and Oakwood Gladness winning all three years; first Three Bull Group1950-1952; Best Ten Head 1950-1951-1954

 

[librarian]

It seems odd that they would import a horned bull from Scotland, 2127336 GOSSHALL XIMENES
When they were working so hard on polled animals.

 

[r.n.reed]

May not be the only reason but I don't think they could get them small enough by staying with the polled strains exclusively.

 

[librarian]

Alas.....I had blocked that from my mind.

 

[shorthorngeek]

This was back in the day when "Scotch-topped" Shorthorns were popular. If an animal did not have recently imported bloodlines in his pedigree, he was worth less, regardless of the quality of the individual animal itself. In addition, Polled Shorthorns were often regarded as being of lesser quality that horned animals. My personal belief is that this was due largely to a combination of size and and the show ring. My observations, back in the sixties, was that in general, Polled Shorthorns averaged slightly larger framed than the horned bloodlines going back to Scotch imports. Although horned and polled had separate show classifications in many of the major shows (state fairs and the International, for example) in other shows both forms competed against each other. It was a rare occurrence, and excellent advertising copy for the owner, when a polled animal won at a mixed show. Many of the leading (from a showring standpoint) polled breeders occasionally introduced Scotch bloodlines for show advertising purposes. Oakwood used a number of imported Scotch bulls during the forties and fifties--Gosshall Ximenes and Lawton Benefactor come to mind, as well as breeding select cows to other local horned bulls, in the case of Lady Golden 5th, to Maxwalton Defender and Drynie Wonder, the latter being a Scotch import used in the Willow Lee herd. To achieve Scotch type in a polled animal was the goal of many breeders back then, and what better way than to use imported Scotch-bred bulls?

 

[shorthorngeek]

The following quote, from the 1949 Shorthorn World article cited earlier, refers to Lady Golden 5th, purchased by Oakwood in the Chiles dispersion in 1944 with the six-week-old Commander-in-Chief at her side:

          Although she was not in salable condition at the time, Paul Teegardin recognized
          a good breeding cow in Lady Golden 5th x and thought he could also see a good
          deal of promise in the blocky, good headed bull calf. He bought the pair, developed
          the calf into an outstanding bull and sold him in the November, 1944, Oakwood
          auction to Clare B. Turner & Son of Cass City, Michigan, at $1,100. Lady Golden
          5th was then mated to Imp. Gosshall Ximenes and in March, 1946, she produced
          Oakwood Leader x.

The show records of the progeny of these two bulls appeared in an earlier post. All of the offspring of Lady Golden 5th on which I have found information are listed below:

Commander-in-Chief x2223662  dob 1.21.44            Sire: Matchless Coronet 4th x2080477

Oakwood Leader x2366612  dob 3.07.46                Sire: Gosshall Ximenes 2127336

Oakwood Lady Golden        dob est. 1947              Sire: Gosshall Ximenes 2127336
    Cannot locate reference for this heifer. I believe she was mentioned in a show report,
    but may be the same as next entry with error as to sire. Or perhaps died young, and the
    name reused.

Oakwood Lady Golden x2586480  dob est. 1948        Sire: Maxwalton Defender 2459185
    dam of: Oakwood Cavalier (by Oakwood Conqueror), tied for second top-selling bull at
    $2000 in the 1956 Oakwood spring sale. This cow died before producing another calf,
    struck by lightning.

Oakwood Lady Golden 2nd x2685891  dob 10.10.51    Sire: Oakwood Conqueror x2496500
    dam of: Oakwood Lancelot (by Creekland Lancer), weighed 820 lb. at 293 days, herd
    bull for Maynard Potter, Minnesota, and later, Huso Bros., also of Minnesota
    dam of: Oakwood Lady Golden 7th, sold in 1960 Oakwood spring sale at $3500 to
    Smycolanda Plantation, South Carolina; later topped the Smycolanda dispersion
    dam of: Oakwood Lancer (by Creekland Lancer), 1961 International grand champion bull
    as junior calf; top-selling bull 1962 Oakwood spring sale to Ted Franklin, Alabama, at
    $3200 for one-third-interest; wieghed 1155 at 14 months of age

Oakwood Lady Golden 3rd x2773345    dob est. 1953-4  Sire: Drynie Wonder
    dam of: Oakwood Wonder (by Oakwood Landmark), top-selling bull at $3000 in the 1956
    Oakwood sale. The 3rd also died young, victim of hardware disease

Oakwood Benefactor x2878100    dob 10.07.55              Sire: Lawton Benefactor 2755002
    top-selling bull at $4000 in the 1967 Oakwood sale

Oakwood Lady Golden 5th x2966260  dob 11.01.57        Sire: Creekland Lancer x2822687
    top-selling female 1964 Oakwood Dispersion at $3200
    dam of: herd bull for Gaynor & Emery Shurley, Warrenton, Georgia
    dam of: bull calf sold to J.I. Cox
    dam of: Oakwood Tradition, 1963 Ohio State Fair reserve champion bull
    dam of: Oakwood Conductor, top-selling bull at $3500 in the Oakwood Dispersion to
    Armour & Co., where he became one of first three Shorthorn bulls to qualify as PRI
    Certified Meat Sire

 

[librarian]

Well, this first bull is Creekland Lancer and the second is Collynie Sensation.
Personally, the pony thing makes me sad and I think Lancer is shows de-evolution of a noble type.

Collynie Sensation sired X1957500 OAKWOOD COMMANDER, who I do not see as a prize winner and I do not find any progeny listed on ASA. His dam seems like a fine cow and it's too bad the breeding didn't go on like that.
But it was a long time ago. At least Lancer had that little white spot on his chest.
I do believe things got better with Oakwood Conductor and, as always, all was not lost. The best thing is Amos Cruickshank passed away before the shrinking began. He would have been dismayed, but probably would have kept his opinion to himself, which I guess I should do as well.