county fair show- groomed or slick?

[CJB]

We do not currently have a rule that includes the wording "professional groomer", but we do have a rule saying that only family members (parents, siblings, grandparents) of the 4-Her are allowed to groom their animal.

We have the same rule, only immediate family members can groom, @ our county fair show.  All grooming takes place in the vicinity of the steer barn, so this rule is well policed by all of  the steer exhibitors.  That doesn't keep the pros out of the barn, but it doesn't let them touch any calves either.  They stand with the calves that they have sold and walk the families through fitting the calf.  It has definitely made for some better fitters in our younger exhibitors since this rule has went into place. 

So, my recommendation is just enforce what you've got on the books, and let it roll.

 

[rackranch]

I didn't read thru all the post but will add this.  Our county once showed with hair.  The same type of Families that you have upset were in our county as well.  They changed the rule to slick shear and guess what? The same families continued to win.  Why, because they are the ones who put in the time and effort to properly care and feed one out.  Just like they were the best fitters before, they were they best fitters after. 

Hard work at the barn= Buckles in the ring..........

 

[vc]

Our fair is blow and go, and I mean blow and go, no product what so ever, they even issue the soap in the washrack. About the only thing you can do is wet pigs down with a mister before they enter the ring. You can see the calves that have had their hair worked with, and the ones who were probably rinsed for the first time before they made the trip to the fair. (those are the ones who scream the loudest about hair). Only exhibitors can work on animals, no adults, they can help each other, and when it get to champion drive you can see 6 or 7 kids helping each kid, I think that is how it should be. Out of the final drive at least half of the calves in it were not cool box calves, including the grand, and he fed Calf-manna and stabilized rice bran, no implants, Grow and Shine or hair supplements. But every kid in the drive, did work the hair and put in some serious time in the barn.
The kid I help, he gets a little lazy, I ask him "what do you think X is doing with their calves right now, now do think you are doing as much or more?" I also tell him, to do all that you can so if he is standing second in class it is because that is where your steer should be, not because he decided that you would skip a day here, miss a few days rinsing here. Do your best and let the chips fall where they fall, is all he can do.

 

[Tallcool1]

Our fair is blow and go, and I mean blow and go, no product what so ever, they even issue the soap in the washrack. About the only thing you can do is wet pigs down with a mister before they enter the ring. You can see the calves that have had their hair worked with, and the ones who were probably rinsed for the first time before they made the trip to the fair. (those are the ones who scream the loudest about hair). Only exhibitors can work on animals, no adults, they can help each other, and when it get to champion drive you can see 6 or 7 kids helping each kid, I think that is how it should be. Out of the final drive at least half of the calves in it were not cool box calves, including the grand, and he fed Calf-manna and stabilized rice bran, no implants, Grow and Shine or hair supplements. But every kid in the drive, did work the hair and put in some serious time in the barn.
The kid I help, he gets a little lazy, I ask him "what do you think X is doing with their calves right now, now do think you are doing as much or more?" I also tell him, to do all that you can so if he is standing second in class it is because that is where your steer should be, not because he decided that you would skip a day here, miss a few days rinsing here. Do your best and let the chips fall where they fall, is all he can do.

Tell me about Calf-manna.

How much do you feed, when do you start feeding it, and what are the benefits of doing so?

I have tried to do research, but haven't had much luck.

 

[Deleted member 20265]

In the fair shows I have been too, adults are only allowed to supervise. There are no adults allowed to groom any animal. With the being said, any 4-H or FFA member may help another kids with grooming, Now if that kid happens to be a damn good groomer, than its ok, but it just can't be an adult whether they are professional or not, not even a parent. There are ways around it, like sneaking your animal to the RV areas or something to make a "fix", but if you have someone on your tail then you are busted.
Personally I think its a good thing as it levels the playing field as most of the kids can not afford to have professional groomers. It makes the kids have to learn. Plus the more experienced are encouraged to help the beginners.

Why are so many people against slick showing? While I think "fluffy cows" are pretty I would think slick shearing would make it simple. The cattle would actually be judged on conformation and market quality rather than who has the best groomed & hair manipulated steer/heifer.

People are against giving up hair because a hair show sells and shows off a kids work ethic not a kids expensive calf. What I mean is if Me and Jake (made up situation) both have nearly identical steers but I wash, comb, and clip mine better then I will win because I worked harder. I think Pro. Clippers' shouldn't be allowed at small county shows because then it hurts the majority (people who show for fun or don't try to have the very best calf).

 

[5PCC]

Great comments...thank you.

To me, the answer is in what you are trying to teach the youth. I'm not in favor of a slick show because I think the kids miss part of the entire experience if the cattle are not groomed for the show ring. Kind of like buying the plane ticket for that great vacation, but then never getting on the plane to go! I just wish that the grooming didn't get so out of hand!

A market beef show with little to no grooming is basically a live judging of yield and grade, where the judge pays more attention to muscle, correctness of condition/finish, and volume or body capacity. He pays less attention to structural correctness and balance. If the last two aren't important, then why waste your time working with the calf at all? Why not just run them into the ring one at a time to be critiqued by the judge? We already do that. The ring is the sale ring at the local sale barn and the judge is how much money people are willing to spend on your cattle...the better the quality, the better the payoff.

The show circuit MARRIES the expertise of the fat cattle feeder with that of his next door neighbor...the farmer who runs a cow/calf operation. The cow/calf man  raises cattle based on structural correctness and balance, because he knows this will ensure the longevity of his herd. Breeding better cattle this way puts more money in his pocket at the sale barn. 

 

[5PCC]

And sadly, there will always be those who cheat...no matter what the rules or the consequences are.

I love the idea of encouraging the kids to do most of the grooming...but with a smaller show, that may be impossible to do. One child may be in the show ring with an animal while his next animal still needs grooming. Plus, my child does not do all of the breaking, feeding, rinsing, brushing, etc of the animal on their own prior to the fair. It is a project that the entire family is involved in. Therefore, the entire family is involved on show day.

If your brother is the second best fitter in the state, then use that to your advantage...I would! My brother runs a huge car lot. Do I go to him to get good deals when I need to buy a car? YES!! Does he give me a better deal than anyone else would? Yes!! Would I be stupid not to take advantage of that? Yes!!

What about the family that keeps their steers/heifers at someone else's farm throughout the year because they either don't have the time or the desire to do the work? The children do zero work but have nice fat steers/heifers with hair longer than mine on show day. These kids might be able to groom the calf on their own, but they are definitely not doing all the work! Unfortunately, there is absolutely no way to police that.

 

[vc]

I was just talking to the Livestock manager from our fair the other day for a different issue when we got on the subject of the rules on ownership, and the requirements. He was talking about doing random visits to kids to check on their projects, we have a few  kids who show their alumni year, so they are one year out of high school, there have been complaints ,the issue with a kid attending school in a different area if the calf is kept at home and the kid is away. The rules state the animal (beef) must be in your possession and under your care for 120 days prior to the start of the fair.

The kid I have been helping ended up switching steers with the seller after he had this calf since October. Calf has a hoof problem that needs to be addressed on a monthly basis, so he was going to switch calves this weekend at the upcoming show, the issue is he had to have posesion of the calf as of 2/6/14, he would not have switched until 2/13/14, someone in the area got wind of it and was complaining that he was cheating, needless to say we did a 12 hour overnight round trip to switch calves, switched calves just before midnight, he had possession on the 6th.

I wounder what the next complaint will be.

All you can do is enforce the rules you have, the best you can, more rules won't help if it is to hard to enforce the ones you have now. Send out a reminder of the rules and make a statement that they will be enforced. If you do enforce them to the letter there can be no exceptions from that point on. I would review the rules, think of situations may come up that would make you deviate from those rules, add those exceptions to the rules. Review each year, if changes need to be made to the rules make them then.

An exception could be if an animal where to die during the mandatory ownership period, the animal could be replaced, things like that. If, heaven forbid, the exhibitor where to fall I'll or expire, the animal could be shown and sold on behalf of the family, (Hereford Football). Things like that.

 

[5PCC]

VC- good for you to be dedicated enough to the industry and to the young person to make the sacrifice of an overnight rode trip! You did a good thing.

My father-in-law never locks his doors regardless of if he is home asleep, just down the road, or complete out of the state. He says that locked doors just keep honest people out. He means that a neighbor or a stranger may need to use the phone, or a tool in his shop, or something else that he would gladly provide to him if asked. Thieves and criminals will always find a way in if they really want to.

The same thing applies here. Rules are typically to keep honest people honest. (It also gives everyone something to complain about!) Any rule can be broken, and most assuredly has been broken.

Many, many years ago...my cousin's steer died. The family had permission from the Fair Board to replace the steer. They replaced him with a steer out of the pasture. He was a nice steer, but he wasn't anything extra special. The replacement steer ended up winning the County Fair, and man was there an uproar about that! Even members of the Fair Board (fathers of steer competitors) said that the replacement steer was some high priced steer from out of state, etc. But remember...these were the same people who gave permission to get a different steer.

 

[vc]

I was at the feed store just yesterday, and was getting caught up on the rumor mill, the rumor about the family that has been hauling the kids I help steer to shows is they pay some one to come work on their animals, the boy does not do any of the work. I would like to see them spend a day with that kid. I've watched him work with his calves, he is way to particular to even let anyone help him let alone hire someone. He won't let his dad help, because he has to go over them again if he does.

The other rumor going around is how much the boy I help spent on his calf, I don't even know anymore with the switch and a few things like breeding's and feed changing hands it is not much really. I told him to keep his mouth shut and let them talk, it will be interesting to hear what the final amount they come up with is.

As soon as you do well, you are either cheating, spending 10,000 on a county fair steer, or someone else is raising the animal, been involved at the fair for 15 years now, and it has not changed except for the target of the rumors, that changes every few years.

If people would just put in the work on their animals, be happy with their results and not worry about the rest, everyone would be better off, and rules and rule changes would not be an issue.

 

[kslivstkbroker]

The problem is you are not enforcing your rules, your like the government you make more laws but don't enforce the ones you have, a blow and go no adhesive is the way to go !!! if you think slick shearing will get rid of your professional fitters your wrong, they can do it ahead time a good shear job cost more!!! Plus professional shear job isn't the same as 1/4 inch clip!!! Problem is it more than a clip job !!!  It should be family members for juniors kids but after they get out of juniors 4H and FFA members only in that county can fit, no adults or family members period!!! teaching a child skill I shouldn't  be illegal!!! The real problem is  steer jocks who fit, feed, clip the animal and the kid doesn't work with a animal just shows up and shows it!!!Kudos to the family that keep trudging along feeds ,clips, washes their own animals and don't spend a fortune on a prospect when they win !!!Judges maybe the biggest problem, most are connected with big money(prof jocks) they get to put there hands on the steers they what a good steer is hair or no hair!!! The sad thing is when officials take big money & look the other way for those few people that do cheat and it ruins it for everybody else like in our state!!!