Why does it even matter if someone else brings more money? Who cares if it's "fair?" Every kid that sells an animal is the recipient of a very generous donation. If the local JD wants to buy the big farmers kid's calf for a ton of money, more power to them. The Seniors grandparents want to reward him for his hardwork by bidding up his pig? Great. Actually every time someone with a personal interest in a kid bids up an animal, it forces the rest of the buyers to compete for a narrower pool of lots thus driving up prices across the board. Stop worrying about whether you are getting as much as the next guy, and be thankful that someone who doesn't even know you or your kid is giving you money.
County Show = Popularity Contest
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RankeCattleCo
Well-known member
Do you think these "big name" people got their "big names" out of no where? I'm pretty sure they didn't get to where they are now by b****ing on an online forum about how unfair life is. Go out in the community and do something. Help set up the fair. Join fair boards. Spend money at local businesses. They worked hard, and now they are being rewarded for it. It is a very simple concept that has been explained in the previous 10 pages but is one that you can't seem to wrap your head around. DO SOMETHING. Don't complain on an online forum. Be grateful you got anything, and don't say that you are, because all you've managed to do is whine and complain about it. The sale is separate from the show. Period, dot, end of discussion. There will rarely ever be a correlation between show placing and sale results. If you regulate how much buyers can spend, THEY WILL NOT SUPPORT ANYONE. If you don't like it, then leave. As for taking out a loan.. If you're taking out a loan for anything more than a "feeder calf" then you are not financially responsible and your sure as hell not teaching your kid any financial responsibilities.
DLD
Well-known member
Our county is a little different than any others described here. First of all, it is a bonus sale - the animals don't actually sell. We have a "cartel" of local businesses and individuals that pool their resources plus have some fundraising activities. The cartel buys all the grands and reserves. The price may vary a few hundred dollars from year to year depending on exactly how much they have to spend. They'll also buy a few kids throughout the sale, say 2 - 4 from each community. In the past, the whole sale pretty much depended on the implement dealers, feed stores and banks to buy directly, spending various amounts depending on who you are. There's still some of that, but more and more that money's going into the cartel and add-ons, and the communities are becoming responsible for taking care of their own kids. I believe a lot of that comes from the fact that more and more of the exhibitors don't have that traditional ag background anymore. Every school has a booster club, some raise enough money to buy through the ring, some (like ours) rely on a local bank to buy the kids, and the booster club money is used as an add-on.
For us, that means that our bank buys every kid from our community for the same $ amount. No matter if my kid had a breed champion steer that's been competitive all year, they'll get the same as another kid from our school that barely managed to have the last lamb in the sale that they rarely touched before the show (also no matter if or how much business you do with said bank). Our best hope is for the cartel (who also spends the same amount per kid after grands and reserves) to buy our kids and then the bank gives them a nice add on. And our local booster club money gets distributed evenly, too - every kid gets the same, whether they showed 4 good calves and worked hard or 1 sorry goat and never messed with it. If you get in the county premium sale, they call it an add on, but if you don't make the sale you still get it anyway. Fortunately, we get add-on's from other businesses and individuals (like the implement dealers, feed stores, etc...) that can make some difference. Some other schools booster clubs in our county pay the most for a steer, then less for a barrow, then even less for sheep and goats. I'd like to see our booster club money distributed differently, but three cattle families voting against fifteen or twenty other families don't have much chance.
So in the end, after the grands and reserves, where you are in sale order makes virtually no difference in what you bring. Last year, my kids both had breed champion steers, chosen by the judge as the first 2 steers in sale order after the grand and reserve. Our school got the lowest bids in the ring (a couple of other schools were the same) - $500 vs. as much as $900 (from booster clubs), so there's "equality" for you, if that would make you feel any better.
I do get a little irritated knowing that the expense and time that my kids put into their projects is much more than some others that walk away with the same amount of money. But I also know that if we wanted, we could feed a couple of $500 sheep (I used to say goats, but it's much tougher to make our county sale with a goat than a sheep) and not worry about 'em much and still get that same money, too. But that's not why we're doing it. We do however, still appreciate what we do get - every little bit helps.
For us, that means that our bank buys every kid from our community for the same $ amount. No matter if my kid had a breed champion steer that's been competitive all year, they'll get the same as another kid from our school that barely managed to have the last lamb in the sale that they rarely touched before the show (also no matter if or how much business you do with said bank). Our best hope is for the cartel (who also spends the same amount per kid after grands and reserves) to buy our kids and then the bank gives them a nice add on. And our local booster club money gets distributed evenly, too - every kid gets the same, whether they showed 4 good calves and worked hard or 1 sorry goat and never messed with it. If you get in the county premium sale, they call it an add on, but if you don't make the sale you still get it anyway. Fortunately, we get add-on's from other businesses and individuals (like the implement dealers, feed stores, etc...) that can make some difference. Some other schools booster clubs in our county pay the most for a steer, then less for a barrow, then even less for sheep and goats. I'd like to see our booster club money distributed differently, but three cattle families voting against fifteen or twenty other families don't have much chance.
So in the end, after the grands and reserves, where you are in sale order makes virtually no difference in what you bring. Last year, my kids both had breed champion steers, chosen by the judge as the first 2 steers in sale order after the grand and reserve. Our school got the lowest bids in the ring (a couple of other schools were the same) - $500 vs. as much as $900 (from booster clubs), so there's "equality" for you, if that would make you feel any better.
I do get a little irritated knowing that the expense and time that my kids put into their projects is much more than some others that walk away with the same amount of money. But I also know that if we wanted, we could feed a couple of $500 sheep (I used to say goats, but it's much tougher to make our county sale with a goat than a sheep) and not worry about 'em much and still get that same money, too. But that's not why we're doing it. We do however, still appreciate what we do get - every little bit helps.
obie105
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2011
- Messages
- 780
I posted on the county I grew up in already but the county I currently live in does something similar to the bonus auction described above. We have a June county fair and and Illinois State fair is in August all the animals are just bid on and it's not per pound it's an actual price. Last year the champion steer brought $3500 and the kid goes home with his calf. Then a week after state fair towards the end of August they have a market only show and sale for anybody to show again their finished steers and actually sell them if they so choose. They do a buyers dinner with it also. They get tons of support.
DLD
Well-known member
We do have a buyers dinner before the sale also. It used to be invitation only, and the only exhibitors that got to go were grands and reserves. Nowadays everyone goes, and it's nice - lets the exhibitors and buyers mingle, and I believe it brings in a little more money.
I might add that this year the grand steer brought $2200 and reserve was $1800. All the other species were $2000 grands and $1500 reserves, I believe. The typical bids on the rest of the animals are $500 - $1000, with a few of "those kids" getting $1000 - $1500. I'm not complaining about that - my kids have been there too, but the demands for equality is wearing a lot of those buyers down. On the flip side though, many make up for what they don't bid on with generous add-on's, though. They know that base price is there, and they can stretch their money a lot farther with add-ons and in many cases the kid ends up with as much or more money when it's all said and done.
Obie, I love that idea of an actual terminal sale after the state show, but I doubt we could ever get it off the ground here. Old habits are hard to break...
I might add that this year the grand steer brought $2200 and reserve was $1800. All the other species were $2000 grands and $1500 reserves, I believe. The typical bids on the rest of the animals are $500 - $1000, with a few of "those kids" getting $1000 - $1500. I'm not complaining about that - my kids have been there too, but the demands for equality is wearing a lot of those buyers down. On the flip side though, many make up for what they don't bid on with generous add-on's, though. They know that base price is there, and they can stretch their money a lot farther with add-ons and in many cases the kid ends up with as much or more money when it's all said and done.
Obie, I love that idea of an actual terminal sale after the state show, but I doubt we could ever get it off the ground here. Old habits are hard to break...
pa showman
Well-known member
i was just wondering you said that this was your first year in the county how can you assume that certain people get more money because they are popular, or have the right last name? Maybe just a thought those kids worked hard to gain and to maintain their buyers. I'm aware there is some families that are popular but I feel like your assuming that they are popular just because they got more money for there steers or because someone was B******* about them in the barn which you cant believe everything you hear
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nkotb said:
Obviously a brain surgeon and NOT a single mom.
I must say that I am a little disappointed to many of the reactions that I read on these 10 pages to the original post. Sometimes it's difficult to empathize with people who are not in the same position that you are in. When we have it good, it's difficult to not believe that if we have it this way, then anyone could. If we've had it bad and then through some good fortune or through the help and kindness of others our situation turns to good, it's hard to believe that others don't have the same ending to what ever their story is. Personally I had a 4-H leader who didn't even know there was a kid alive in his county and an FFA advisor who would give you his last dime but didn't know one end of a cow from another. Everyone doesn't have the same circumstances. I know for a fact that Jeff and Robert and Shawn and others are good people. But for me it is easy to see that the original poster was new, was unaware of how things worked, was a single mom trying to be both mom and dad. IN MY MIND she would be better served by a little empathy and education and not immediate condemnation. Much along the lines of Roberts latter long post and Clints post.
There are "rules" to this game. No different than rules to Football or Baseball. Many are unwritten. And one of those rules for the county sale is if you want your calf to bring more than market, you better bring your own buyers. I get it that you don't have time, I get it that you haven't been there long enough to have established business relationships. I get it that you don't feel that this is the way it "should be." Personally I am all for you fighting to change it to how you feel it should be. However, you should consider the risks that would involve. You're not gonna change it next year. So if you show next year the same thing is gonna happen. If you ever do succeed in winning enough of the right people over to change it it will take several years and you're gonna go through it all gain and again in the mean time. Then say there are two or three years in a row where you have the best animal in three states and they get some recent college grad judging team kid to judge and he puts you in last place. If you give up trying after a couple years you will have a reputation of being difficult to work with and it will be even harder to get others to help your child. You've accomplished nothing and your kid has graduated and his jr show career is over. If your goal is to see him rewarded financially for the hard work he has put in, don't you think it would be easier and faster to work within the current framework? I get that it takes time that you don't have. I think sometimes it's ok just to either not participate in a project or have realistic ideas on the level of participation your resources allow be that time, money, facilities, what ever. It just seems to me if you look at it objectively it would be easier to reach the goal of seeing your son rewarded by working in the present system now that you are aware what that system is.
ALL THAT SAID, and I know it was a lot, but it's not really the reason that compelled me to post. What I find most interesting is the fact that anytime anyone has a complaint about something in a livestock show being unjust they are immediately labeled as a whiner, loser, bad person who is out to "hurt the program." That's really what most of these posts are about. Condemnation over speaking up concerning something the poster felt was unjust. Doesn't really matter what it is. It was that way when people complained about the mess at Ft. Worth last year. It's that way when someone complains about cheating. As long as you are one of the "sheeple" and just go along, all is well. In my mind, those who turn a blind eye to injustice or belittle those who try to fight it are as guilty as those who commit it.
A couple years ago a friend of mine's wife took a picture of someone pumping a calf at our state show on her cell phone. Not knowing much about the industry or "how things work" yet knowing it was against the rules she took it to a high ranking member of our extension service and superintendent of the show. The lady threw her hands up over her eyes and screamed "Don't show me that!!!!!" Then tried to explain how cheating controversies are "bad for the program." :
This isn't about whether pumping a calf is good or bad although you can refer to the Charolais that died in the ring at Agribition a couple years ago if you'd like. This is about cheating children. And it's against the rules here. For me there is NOTHING lower than and adult who cheats a child. I have no idea what place this calf that was photographed being pumped came in. But unless it came in last there was at least one kid who's hard work and effort was thrown away in the 2 min it took to pump that calf. Each child deserves the right to be rewarded on the judges opinion of the merits of his animal. To have that right taken away by an adult who doesn't have higher morals than to cheat a child disgusts me. I've heard that "life isn't fair" so much it makes me want to puke. There is plenty that goes on in a livestock project to teach that lesson without having adults cheating children. This phenomenon isn't common only to this discussion board, it's like that everywhere. The people in that livestock office made that lady who took the photo feel like she was a really bad person because she spoke up against an injustice. They thought she should have known that you don't do that, it's bad for the program. And she thought they would want to know about it. Why didn't they? What's more important the children or the program? Why would cleaning up some of the scum and maybe removing some of these lazy government employed extension people be bad for the program?
Tell me why you condemn someone who speaks up against injustice when they see it in the livestock project. I am going to hate myself in the morning for saying this. So much so that I may take a long walk off a short pier. But X Bar has some excellent points in his posts in this thread. The best of which is this: Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. Why do you disagree with that?
vanridge
Well-known member
interesting read. Now as a fellow momma bear I would like to put my two cents in. I don't like taking out loans and I do not consider my banker my friend. However, if my kid has to do that to buy something, make sure he only borrows as much as he can pay back. Then he will get good credit and a proper sense of how to borrow money.
I had the same experience a couple of years ago at our sale. My son placed first in the class and worked his butt off, only to get the second lowest price in the club. He had written letters, visited buyers, we buy local, etc etc. There were kids who started training their steers just weeks before the show that got way more money than he did. I was mad. I mean extremely mad. I stormed off and waited to cool off before I said something I'd regret. When my son asked me about it (only because his cousins brought it up) I told him that it was because our family farm can not do enough business to drive up the price of his steer. However, I also added that we could pay the bill for the feed and the steer and that he still had money in the bank, so we shouldn't complain. We did fine. And we did. But mommas don't like to see their babies get less than someone else. I complained to our 4-H leader too only because he's a friend of mine. Now I look back and am ashamed that I even got mad. Should have taken the lesson from my son, and been happy with what we got.
This year, I had two kids in 4-H and someday I hope all 5 of my children will be in the program. There is no way that I can expect top dollar for all my kids. I get them to figure out how much they need to pay their bills and than we go to the sale. Anything over and above that is something to be grateful for. There are buyers who come to buy a certain kids steer because they do business with the family. They always pay more just because they can. It is how life works. If your kid is working hard, doing his best, getting support from his family, and getting less than the "popular" kids, your kid will walk away stronger, more confident, and much more aware of how real life works. He'll succeed in life way faster than the kid who got it handed to him. I feel for your situation, but at the same time you can either cry about it or hammer down and give your kid, your time and love so he can become someone who grows from this. Hey, when he is a grown man, maybe he can find a kid just like him and be his mentor. Good luck and all the best to you!
PS I always tell people that my kids are in 4-H but I learn just as much as they do. Especially about letting my kids become independent individuals.
I had the same experience a couple of years ago at our sale. My son placed first in the class and worked his butt off, only to get the second lowest price in the club. He had written letters, visited buyers, we buy local, etc etc. There were kids who started training their steers just weeks before the show that got way more money than he did. I was mad. I mean extremely mad. I stormed off and waited to cool off before I said something I'd regret. When my son asked me about it (only because his cousins brought it up) I told him that it was because our family farm can not do enough business to drive up the price of his steer. However, I also added that we could pay the bill for the feed and the steer and that he still had money in the bank, so we shouldn't complain. We did fine. And we did. But mommas don't like to see their babies get less than someone else. I complained to our 4-H leader too only because he's a friend of mine. Now I look back and am ashamed that I even got mad. Should have taken the lesson from my son, and been happy with what we got.
This year, I had two kids in 4-H and someday I hope all 5 of my children will be in the program. There is no way that I can expect top dollar for all my kids. I get them to figure out how much they need to pay their bills and than we go to the sale. Anything over and above that is something to be grateful for. There are buyers who come to buy a certain kids steer because they do business with the family. They always pay more just because they can. It is how life works. If your kid is working hard, doing his best, getting support from his family, and getting less than the "popular" kids, your kid will walk away stronger, more confident, and much more aware of how real life works. He'll succeed in life way faster than the kid who got it handed to him. I feel for your situation, but at the same time you can either cry about it or hammer down and give your kid, your time and love so he can become someone who grows from this. Hey, when he is a grown man, maybe he can find a kid just like him and be his mentor. Good luck and all the best to you!
PS I always tell people that my kids are in 4-H but I learn just as much as they do. Especially about letting my kids become independent individuals.
knabe
Well-known member
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere
Life.
Life.
JSchroeder
Well-known member
No jr auction amount is an "injustice".
knabe
Well-known member
Inflating the auction price above market price is an injustice.
Our County show does reward placing, to some degree. The supreme champion and the reserve supreme champion set the ceiling. The reserve maxes out at $0.05/lb below the Champion. All others through the Auction are capped at the Reserve's price.
Some here have stated that when you limit buyers you kill the sale. That has proven untrue. A great deal of buyers felt pressure from parents to make their kids' bring the highest price or bid their calf up. Once the calf reaches the ceiling, that buyer often feels relief that they don't have to continue bidding.
The only ones griping are the auctioneer and certain parents. I have never once heard a buyer complain! This also ensures the champ and reserve bring decent prices or they really limit the rest of the sale.
It was a struggle to put this system in place. Why? The committee was made up of almost all parents, not buyers!
We are also fortunate that we have a very active Cattlemen's Assoc. and a "cartel" (put together by the Cattlemen's) to purchase steers. This past year the Cattleman's ensured the champ brought over $3/lb and bid most calves to over $2.5/lb. That champ price set the floor and ensured placing did somewhat play into the pricing.
Some here have stated that when you limit buyers you kill the sale. That has proven untrue. A great deal of buyers felt pressure from parents to make their kids' bring the highest price or bid their calf up. Once the calf reaches the ceiling, that buyer often feels relief that they don't have to continue bidding.
The only ones griping are the auctioneer and certain parents. I have never once heard a buyer complain! This also ensures the champ and reserve bring decent prices or they really limit the rest of the sale.
It was a struggle to put this system in place. Why? The committee was made up of almost all parents, not buyers!
We are also fortunate that we have a very active Cattlemen's Assoc. and a "cartel" (put together by the Cattlemen's) to purchase steers. This past year the Cattleman's ensured the champ brought over $3/lb and bid most calves to over $2.5/lb. That champ price set the floor and ensured placing did somewhat play into the pricing.
corn n cows
Active member
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2012
- Messages
- 32
>>Our County show does reward placing, to some degree. The supreme champion and the reserve supreme champion set the ceiling. The reserve maxes out at $0.05/lb below the Champion. All others through the Auction are capped at the Reserve's price.<<
If you are in the US, I am pretty sure your county practice is in violation of at least 1 maybe 2 Federal Anti Trust Laws; price fixing & collusion. Public auctions that use the US dollar as legal tender fall under the juristiction of this statute. However no US or county attorney would ever prosecute such a crime. Let the auction method of price discovery reign, however painful it may seem. Boo Hoo & whine all you want, but price is a function of supply & demand. Capitalism is wonderful Consider the alternative; showing heifers or having a North Korea address.
If you are in the US, I am pretty sure your county practice is in violation of at least 1 maybe 2 Federal Anti Trust Laws; price fixing & collusion. Public auctions that use the US dollar as legal tender fall under the juristiction of this statute. However no US or county attorney would ever prosecute such a crime. Let the auction method of price discovery reign, however painful it may seem. Boo Hoo & whine all you want, but price is a function of supply & demand. Capitalism is wonderful
Consider the alternative; showing heifers or having a North Korea address.I strongly disagree with knabe's last two posts. There may be lots of injustice in life. Does that mean that you discontinue fighting against it? Does that mean that A drunk driver who kills someone shouldn't be brought to justice? Would you just tell the victims family "that's life?" What about when kids are cheated? Shouldn't fight for justice there because that's life? In my book if someone willingly disregards a child being taken advantage of whether it be in school, at a livestock show, in some type of abusive home situation, whatever the manner, are as guilty as the ones perpetrating the injustice.
And why is it unjust for someone to donate more money for a steer than the market value? Why shouldn't they have the right to pay what ever they want for a steer that came in last place if that's what they want to do? Every premium auction is nothing but charitable giving. Why shouldn't someone be allowed to give what ever they want to what ever charity they want?
Jeff I don't disagree that it no jr auction is an injustice. If you read what I wrote, and I figure you did because I know you're educated enough to have done it, I stated that there were lots of injustices committed by adults involving children. And that some of that happens in the livestock project. And that anyone who seems to raise any objection to them is labeled a malcontent. That was the point of the paragraph that contained the reference to injustice. Had nothing to do with an auction other than this person brought up a subject that she deemed unjust.
And It seems to me that anyone who read the facts of this thread a. she was new to the livestock project. b. she was new to the area. c. She came from a place where the price in the sale reflected the show placing, apparently just like MANY counties do according to posters on this thread, ANYONE with half a brain and an open mind could see how someone with this background would expect things to be different. ANYONE, with no horse experience but with common sense would believe the horse that finished the race first is more valuable than the one who came in second. That goes Double for AAOK who always has his panties in a wad about something and often chides others here for name calling yet has no problem labeling the original poster as a "whiner" with no consideration of her point of view.
And it seems ironic that corn n cows knows so much about Federal Anti Trust laws, price fixing and collusion but doesn't even know that this type of auction doesn't meet the standard of the law that governs "public auctions." They don't even require a licensed auctioneer. :
And why is it unjust for someone to donate more money for a steer than the market value? Why shouldn't they have the right to pay what ever they want for a steer that came in last place if that's what they want to do? Every premium auction is nothing but charitable giving. Why shouldn't someone be allowed to give what ever they want to what ever charity they want?
Jeff I don't disagree that it no jr auction is an injustice. If you read what I wrote, and I figure you did because I know you're educated enough to have done it, I stated that there were lots of injustices committed by adults involving children. And that some of that happens in the livestock project. And that anyone who seems to raise any objection to them is labeled a malcontent. That was the point of the paragraph that contained the reference to injustice. Had nothing to do with an auction other than this person brought up a subject that she deemed unjust.
And It seems to me that anyone who read the facts of this thread a. she was new to the livestock project. b. she was new to the area. c. She came from a place where the price in the sale reflected the show placing, apparently just like MANY counties do according to posters on this thread, ANYONE with half a brain and an open mind could see how someone with this background would expect things to be different. ANYONE, with no horse experience but with common sense would believe the horse that finished the race first is more valuable than the one who came in second. That goes Double for AAOK who always has his panties in a wad about something and often chides others here for name calling yet has no problem labeling the original poster as a "whiner" with no consideration of her point of view.
And it seems ironic that corn n cows knows so much about Federal Anti Trust laws, price fixing and collusion but doesn't even know that this type of auction doesn't meet the standard of the law that governs "public auctions." They don't even require a licensed auctioneer. :
OH Breeder
Well-known member
Now I am not the brightest bulb in the pack but ....
In life or in general when there is a problem then SEEK a solution. I have been on both sides of the situation. We are exhibitors and I have been a buyer at our county sale. Too many times today when people encounter conflict they do not provide a solution but only the details to the problems. I felt I offered numerous ideas on how to potentially improve the "situation". By saying I am tapping out and taking my kids and cows home or to another venue is not solving any problems. What about Jenny Sue who moves in next year and experiences what this exhibitor experiences. Nothing gets resolved. The cycle will continue. If this project means alot to you and your child then why give up and move on. When I am confronted with conflict I start asking questions.
Problem = Solution
-I would want to talk to the sale committee
-Talk to the other exhibitors and ask how did you get that bid or raise money. etc etc etc
Having a small farm I have to depend many times on the younger generation to help me and my sisters. What I have noticed is when things are tough and kids don't like what is going today they just leave. I have seriously had kids come break a sweat and turn and walk out. This is a whole other situation BUT isn't it in some way related to what is going on here. There is a problem and instead of fighting for a "more just?" sale we just tap out?
Too many times we assume. If you are new to the area how do you "know" who the "Big" names are? At a community level there will always be some loyalty to people we know. Its that one time as a buyer I can say thank you to a customer or a kid that has worked for me etc. Why is that wrong?
Of course this is a public forum and some folks will immediately react and it may not make others happy. Right or wrong its an opinion and this is a public forum. I don't think we should chastise others for their opinions but it doesn't mean we have to agree with them.
In life or in general when there is a problem then SEEK a solution. I have been on both sides of the situation. We are exhibitors and I have been a buyer at our county sale. Too many times today when people encounter conflict they do not provide a solution but only the details to the problems. I felt I offered numerous ideas on how to potentially improve the "situation". By saying I am tapping out and taking my kids and cows home or to another venue is not solving any problems. What about Jenny Sue who moves in next year and experiences what this exhibitor experiences. Nothing gets resolved. The cycle will continue. If this project means alot to you and your child then why give up and move on. When I am confronted with conflict I start asking questions.
Problem = Solution
-I would want to talk to the sale committee
-Talk to the other exhibitors and ask how did you get that bid or raise money. etc etc etc
Having a small farm I have to depend many times on the younger generation to help me and my sisters. What I have noticed is when things are tough and kids don't like what is going today they just leave. I have seriously had kids come break a sweat and turn and walk out. This is a whole other situation BUT isn't it in some way related to what is going on here. There is a problem and instead of fighting for a "more just?" sale we just tap out?
Too many times we assume. If you are new to the area how do you "know" who the "Big" names are? At a community level there will always be some loyalty to people we know. Its that one time as a buyer I can say thank you to a customer or a kid that has worked for me etc. Why is that wrong?
Of course this is a public forum and some folks will immediately react and it may not make others happy. Right or wrong its an opinion and this is a public forum. I don't think we should chastise others for their opinions but it doesn't mean we have to agree with them.
JSchroeder
Well-known member
I understand. I should have replied with more depth but I was on my phone.
When you close your post with that phrase though, you are giving a not insignificant vote of approval for a person thinking her child has been wronged. Her child wasn't wronged and wasn't the victim of an injustice. She just wants what somebody else got.
She's got the time and energy to actively campaign against the show but when asked if she volunteered to help the show, she falls back on a claim that she doesn't have that time or energy. (which is ignorantly dismissive of the troubles the people that do volunteer face in their own lives)
Empathy doesn't work with that attitude. She's not unique, that cancerous attitude is actually a pretty worn out stereotype not only in the show world but the world in general. I've seen it over and over in non-stock show related volunteer work I've done.
People that have fallen into that frame of mind have to find their own way out. Until they realize they actually control their situation and are not just a victim who lacks the ability to help the situation, empathizing with their grievances only makes that harder. You have to be careful in empathizing with that attitude and the words you use, such as injustice, they feed on it. People that take the stance this person has pick out those little phrases and words to stand on in the same way she bends the Bible to suit her covetous desire.
There are people in this world that need hugs and to be understood. Those people don't launch campaigns to turn kids away from stock shows.
Show Dad
Well-known member
OH Breeder said:
OHB haven't they outlawed your bulb?
SD
<alien>
Show Dad
Well-known member
Our society is so vested in immediate return that "paying our dues" or "finding out who the players are" is considered an injustice. I understand that "putting in the time" might not fit in our schedules but don't be afraid to work. I too experience something like what has been discussed hear but instead of whining and crying about it, I took the long range approach. "Why fight city hall" when you can build you own.
First we quit going through our sale no matter how we finished. When we started our target was to eat what we feed. I only had three kids and each fed out 2 steers. Instead of finding bidders we found buyers for freezer beef.
To make a long story short, because of the we pay attention to how raised, fed and processed our beef, demand far out weighed supply. We soon found that we were making far more, in the long run, than what we would have made in our county auction. It went ballistic as my kids started aging out and we had even fewer animals to offer. We got our premium it just took sometime. Our kids customers became our kids supporters and our kids hard worked payed off.
Just saying there are all sorts of ways to solve your problem not just the immediate or easy solution which can actually be more frustrating.
SD
<alien>
First we quit going through our sale no matter how we finished. When we started our target was to eat what we feed. I only had three kids and each fed out 2 steers. Instead of finding bidders we found buyers for freezer beef.
To make a long story short, because of the we pay attention to how raised, fed and processed our beef, demand far out weighed supply. We soon found that we were making far more, in the long run, than what we would have made in our county auction. It went ballistic as my kids started aging out and we had even fewer animals to offer. We got our premium it just took sometime. Our kids customers became our kids supporters and our kids hard worked payed off.
Just saying there are all sorts of ways to solve your problem not just the immediate or easy solution which can actually be more frustrating.
SD
<alien>
Yall are making this way too complicated. All of us who have kids showing are frankly too biased to be the people making these decisions. We are biased toward our own kids, kids from our town, steers vs pigs, etc. The people that run county shows and do the fundraising work their butts off - all year most of the time. Jeff - you shouldn't back off - to call the result of the efforts of these people an injustice is insulting and just dead wrong. Same thing for someone that wants to show up to one of these auctions and donate whatever to whatever kid.
Nobody should ever think that they can show up to a new place, participate in a program that's new to them, etc and get to be the person that "fixes" things, makes the rules, or rights "wrongs". It doesnt work that way in school, church, kids sports, etc and it sure doesnt work that way in business. You have to put in your time, gain experience and understanding, and EARN CREDIBILITY before a community trusts you to be a decision maker.
If there is really a problem, enough people are going to be concerned about it to effect change.
Nobody should ever think that they can show up to a new place, participate in a program that's new to them, etc and get to be the person that "fixes" things, makes the rules, or rights "wrongs". It doesnt work that way in school, church, kids sports, etc and it sure doesnt work that way in business. You have to put in your time, gain experience and understanding, and EARN CREDIBILITY before a community trusts you to be a decision maker.
If there is really a problem, enough people are going to be concerned about it to effect change.
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Looking for info on the Grand Champion bull from the 1971 Buckeye Expo
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