knabe
Well-known member
Hiring someone to change.
It does work that way in business.
Seen it too many times.
It does work that way in business.
Seen it too many times.
County Show = Popularity Contest
- Thread starter green8911
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knabe
Well-known member
chambero said:
Yup. Its hard to figure out what is the root cause of ineffectiveness for a lopper.
Some try and figure out who are valuable and redeploy. The easiest stage is during step growth.
Far too many people are not lopped off that sit around talking bad about people. They are the existing power structure and have too much time to bad mouth people. They typically are the pnes that stay and make change harder. They dont want their supervisor to hire people better than them and sabotage the interview process, both by not hiring better people in their own group, but also other groups because they dont like people. Typically people are competent, but just dont like the people who are the change agents and they arent good at helping as this is a threat to their position.
Good loppers can spot this instantly as they've seen it before and depending upon the power structure just ignore them as if the company grows, those people will not grow and become less a percent of the powere structue.
Popularity is a balance challenge in all endeavers.
Telos
Well-known member
Frustrated mother who got thrown in the middle of a situation of unknown variables.
I appreciate your opinion and empathize with how you feel but this is part of the way the junior program and County Fairs sometimes work. They do want more participation and sometimes you are left clueless to all the facts. You should, IMO, take this as a learning experience for both you and your son. Sometimes these incidents can be a shock on our system. They can either motivate you to continue or make us run away and move on to something else.
I appreciate your opinion and empathize with how you feel but this is part of the way the junior program and County Fairs sometimes work. They do want more participation and sometimes you are left clueless to all the facts. You should, IMO, take this as a learning experience for both you and your son. Sometimes these incidents can be a shock on our system. They can either motivate you to continue or make us run away and move on to something else.
Jeff_Schroeder said:
I am not against you in this discussion. But I wrote a whole paragraph to the lady asking her to look at it a different way and that her son would be better served by her working with the current frame work rather than against it. SURELY you can understand why someone who had no idea how the deal works, and came from a place where the placing was relevant to the pricing could feel slighted. That's all. There ARE other instances that ARE unjust to children in the livestock project and that is what I was referring to being unjust. To just say "that's life" and go along to get along is wrong. I don't think the tenth commandment has any bearing on coveting a fair shake and from the fact as I saw them presented, this was all the lady wanted. In my mind, she just didn't understand the system because she had never been in it.
chambero said:
My lord Robert, I value your friendship but I don't value your misrepresenting what I had to say. No where in what I said did I say this lady was treated unjustly. I DID say that SURELY ANYBODY WITH HALF A BRAIN could understand why someone who didn't know any better AND had been in a system that was different would feel slighted. As I see it the lady formed her opinion of what happened by being ignorant of the way it worked.
What I DID say about injustice for children is that there is plenty of it in life and plenty of in related to livestock projects. There ARE adults who take advantage of children in all areas of life. There ARE adults who cheat children in livestock projects. The reason it is allowed to exist is this "go along to get along", "life's not fair" attitude. There are more than enough instances in a livestock project to teach that life is not fair without condoning adults who either cheat children, are paid to do a job and are too lazy to do it, show prejudice, or abuse the kids or their livestock. And by not challenging those people you condone it. And to go so far and call someone who wishes to challenge it a whiner, malcontent, loser, ect. THAT is what is dead wrong because THAT is what allows these things to exist.
And I get that you had great extension people to help you when you were young and maybe the places you show have committees that work their tails off year round to make things good for the kids. But you should step outside of your world once in a while and see that its not that way in many places. There are extension people who are too lazy to do anything beyond sit behind a desk and it's really hard to fire a state employee. There are lots of places where show committees start trying to throw things together 3 weeks before the show. And if they are volunteers how can you blame them? But to portray all people involved in putting on any part of a livestock project as a saint is simply not true. I am glad that in your world it is for your family's sake and those around you. I'm not saying it SHOULDN'T be that way. But it's not that way everywhere. And to blindly defend them is wrong.
chappy6655
Active member
My son and daughter were once new to a county fair too, we really didn't know much about it being that I had been away from show cattle for 20 years and my wife grew up in town. Our first year my children received just over market price for their animals but they learned a lot and were happy with what they got. Me and my wife both work an hour or more from home and I often work extremely long hours, leaving us with not much time. Our children have picked up the slack to "Make it Better" for themselves. They put their savings accounts in a local bank that does a lot of bidding, they go out of their way to help any "new" project members which unknowingly has produced more bidders on their animals. They pay attention to who is doing the bidding and try (or try to get Mom and Dad) to do business with whomever they can even if it's buying a candy bar. In the process of trying to get higher bids on their projects my children have inadvertently become better more productive citizens in our local community and it has payed off for them no matter what the $ is at the end of the day. So I'd say yes the hard work does pay off you just need to look in broader terms, it's not just brushing, blowing, etc. that are included in "work". It might be going to church on Sunday or helping out a new student that just moved into town or maybe getting to know your community. I've always believed that a person "makes their own bed" so to speak. Anyone can come up with excuses. So I will take this opportunity that if anyone here on Steer Planet has ever helped or supported my children or ever do in the future THANK YOU!
Telos said:
My point was why couldn't you people respond like this? What is wrong with this response? Why all the holier than thou, I know how it works so you should know better attitudes? Then that although THIS auction deal was no injustice there ARE other injustices where many of you people criticize those who speak up against them. That is all.
The "holier than thou" came around when several of us offered "nice" advice and she (who doesn't have time to help the show) did have time to (so she said) to organize an uprising and get people to quit the show. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck its highly likely a duck - this case being someone who just likes to bitch - every county show has them and they don't deserve sympathy.
Hopefully - she had time to cool down and has gone about her business. More likely she won't think much about her county show till next year comes around and her kid will be there to collect their unfairly free money.
Collectively, I really do believe that most of the people that run county shows in Tx really are good people who care about kids and raise a heck of a lot of money for them. Call me naive if you want.
I wasn't picking on you Gonewest, but somebody new to all of this having it all figured out to the point they are going to enlist other kids to leave the show? Number one that's 99% likely hot air and 2) THAT is hurting other kids.
Hopefully - she had time to cool down and has gone about her business. More likely she won't think much about her county show till next year comes around and her kid will be there to collect their unfairly free money.
Collectively, I really do believe that most of the people that run county shows in Tx really are good people who care about kids and raise a heck of a lot of money for them. Call me naive if you want.
I wasn't picking on you Gonewest, but somebody new to all of this having it all figured out to the point they are going to enlist other kids to leave the show? Number one that's 99% likely hot air and 2) THAT is hurting other kids.
Telos
Well-known member
Educating families better in how these shows operate from start to finish might be a positive approach in helping reduce frustrations.
I hear this.. We have these complaints in every county... Well, maybe there needs to be a better understanding of all the possibilities before some of these families get involved in a project. Who's educating these new folks? Are they the ones that seem to always get frustrated because they simply were not made aware?.
It's great that some of you guys are experts but many new comers are ignorant of all the things that go on at these county fairs especially at sale time. Most of these folks don't even have a cow let alone a cow herd. I just think it is a bit immature to crucify people when some of these unexpected things happen to them. It is frustrating when no one spends time beforehand in explaining how a sale can be political and maybe not favor the new guys on the block. I know it's hard for most of you to be objective with other's frustrations because you are the seasoned veterans and know just about everything. But just remember there are many new families that know very little and can be vulnerable to unexpected events that others could have helped with and warned them of. Such as sending out letters or maybe a text message, with local business owners, about their project brfore the sale began.
I hear this.. We have these complaints in every county... Well, maybe there needs to be a better understanding of all the possibilities before some of these families get involved in a project. Who's educating these new folks? Are they the ones that seem to always get frustrated because they simply were not made aware?.
It's great that some of you guys are experts but many new comers are ignorant of all the things that go on at these county fairs especially at sale time. Most of these folks don't even have a cow let alone a cow herd. I just think it is a bit immature to crucify people when some of these unexpected things happen to them. It is frustrating when no one spends time beforehand in explaining how a sale can be political and maybe not favor the new guys on the block. I know it's hard for most of you to be objective with other's frustrations because you are the seasoned veterans and know just about everything. But just remember there are many new families that know very little and can be vulnerable to unexpected events that others could have helped with and warned them of. Such as sending out letters or maybe a text message, with local business owners, about their project brfore the sale began.
green8911
Active member
chambero said:
Hold on there Chambero. I have been in very close contact with my sons jr ffa advisor AND county 4H agent ALL YEAR. Phone calls, visits, etc., etc. Our jr ffa advisor who is also the ffa teacher is 64 and could care less about being "involved" in anything but planning his retirement cabin in Fredericksburg Tx as this is his last year. And our county 4H rep has made it VERY obvious that if its not a pig or lamb, he's, quote, "out of his comfort zone".
I agree with Telos, a little education for me would have been great. The best education has been just to live through it. I hear and see comment after comment about people who have done exactly what people are saying, sending letters, getting "involved", visiting businesses, etc., etc., etc., only to have the same thing that happened to us happen to them. Thus, "p o p u l a r I t y c o n t e s t". If I'd of know this going in to it, I'd of never attended the county show in the first place. I wish someone were there to inform us. As I've said time and time again, I hear people over and over say they want to get participation up, get more kids involved, participation is steadily declining, etc., etc., etc. Just sit back and read all these posts on here. Whether you like my point or not, read what people are saying and read the differences. HINT HINT. THIS IS WHY PARTICIPATION IS DOWN. Parents and kids who are NOT the popular, local working, contributing, involved people DON'T WANT TO GET IN THIS SAME TYPE OF MESS THAT YOU ARE READING HERE.
DLD
Well-known member
I understand being the new people in town and being unhappy with how things go. I understand it's very frustrating when you feel your child is being slighted. I've been there, and I sympathize - truly I do. I'll even agree that you have a point that these kind of situations can be very discouraging to kids and families just starting out.
But on the other hand, walking away and trying to take everyone you can with you is not the answer. And I would think surely you could see why it puts a lot of people here on the defensive. Many on this board work hard to raise money not only for our own kids, but others in our communities and counties - they shouldn't have to apologize for being offended that you want to call the whole program selfish and elitist. There have been many suggestions about things you and your child can do that will greatly improve his chances of getting more money next year - it's your choice to either try them or not.
If you do not want to be part of the solution, that means you're part of the problem...
But on the other hand, walking away and trying to take everyone you can with you is not the answer. And I would think surely you could see why it puts a lot of people here on the defensive. Many on this board work hard to raise money not only for our own kids, but others in our communities and counties - they shouldn't have to apologize for being offended that you want to call the whole program selfish and elitist. There have been many suggestions about things you and your child can do that will greatly improve his chances of getting more money next year - it's your choice to either try them or not.
If you do not want to be part of the solution, that means you're part of the problem...
knabe
Well-known member
ive - to cause
fense, just change to fence
de - away from
Defencive
This post is exactly why ag is in trouble. Apparently it will never change.
It was the same in the 60's and probably before that.
Peta is laughing at us self destruct.
fense, just change to fence
de - away from
Defencive
This post is exactly why ag is in trouble. Apparently it will never change.
It was the same in the 60's and probably before that.
Peta is laughing at us self destruct.
OH Breeder
Well-known member
knabe said:
I see this post as more di·vi·sive
Robert I never agreed with the ladies position on any part of this. All I said was that it is easily understandable why someone would feel this way given ALL of the facts involved. I am very happy that you had the experience that you did as a child not only because I would want anyone to have good childhood experiences but if you had not I would never have met you because you wouldn't have stayed with this activity. I think that people like you and your family who don't need $50,000 steers to have a good experience is what makes the show thing fun. But it's the INDIVIDUALS like you. It is NOT the Show thing on its own merit. I am all for your position in this auction matter. Just not the fact that you can't understand why or how someone could be disgruntled given the facts that were presented. And I believe that her opinion was based on ignorance. And I mean that in the strictest definition of the word and not in a derogatory fashion.
She also made a good point when she mentioned the participation numbers going down in the beef project. Now that might not be true in the great state of Texas where everything is of course bigger and better and the economy is thriving. But it's true in lots of other places, like here. And besides the economy and the relative high cost of calves and feed, the main factor in that is the ever growing distance between the haves and the have nots. I'm not smart enough to know how to fix that just that it's a fact.
Also it seems like it wouldn't matter what the complaint was, if it had merit or not, you're against the complainer. You defended the fiasco at Ft. Worth last year. If there was 100 people who had a complaint about it, you're the only one defending it. I have no clue if things were handled well there or not. I didn't see it. The point isn't if it was right or wrong it's that it seems for some reason you can't believe there should be any challenge to anything about a livestock show. At what point do you believe someone deserves to be challenged? Airing? Pumping with 7up? Steroids? What if the judge was actually bribed or picks a calf he sold? What if there were a couple kids injured badly during the stampede down the ramp? What if someone somehow buys the winners at Denver and brings them in to compete at Ft. Worth? Obviously all those things are much more egregious than this auction example in which, for the 100th time, in my mind at least, there was no injustice. At what point do you feel like it's viable to challenge? Or is there a point at all? Is it just that in reality most of these people really have nothing to complain about so you lump them all together? Do you think people should just be happy that there is a program in place that allows them to spend lots of time, money and effort and that they should not expect anything in return for their efforts? I'm just trying to understand where you're coming from and why you condemn any one who has a complaint.
She also made a good point when she mentioned the participation numbers going down in the beef project. Now that might not be true in the great state of Texas where everything is of course bigger and better and the economy is thriving. But it's true in lots of other places, like here. And besides the economy and the relative high cost of calves and feed, the main factor in that is the ever growing distance between the haves and the have nots. I'm not smart enough to know how to fix that just that it's a fact.
Also it seems like it wouldn't matter what the complaint was, if it had merit or not, you're against the complainer. You defended the fiasco at Ft. Worth last year. If there was 100 people who had a complaint about it, you're the only one defending it. I have no clue if things were handled well there or not. I didn't see it. The point isn't if it was right or wrong it's that it seems for some reason you can't believe there should be any challenge to anything about a livestock show. At what point do you believe someone deserves to be challenged? Airing? Pumping with 7up? Steroids? What if the judge was actually bribed or picks a calf he sold? What if there were a couple kids injured badly during the stampede down the ramp? What if someone somehow buys the winners at Denver and brings them in to compete at Ft. Worth? Obviously all those things are much more egregious than this auction example in which, for the 100th time, in my mind at least, there was no injustice. At what point do you feel like it's viable to challenge? Or is there a point at all? Is it just that in reality most of these people really have nothing to complain about so you lump them all together? Do you think people should just be happy that there is a program in place that allows them to spend lots of time, money and effort and that they should not expect anything in return for their efforts? I'm just trying to understand where you're coming from and why you condemn any one who has a complaint.
knabe
Well-known member
OH Breeder said:
Me too. I was just trying to turn it around.
Its like 6 of one half a dozen of the other or glass half empty or full and going on and on and on.
Peta still laughing.
