DUCK..... this post could get nasty

[MCC]

First of all let me say this post is NOT INTENDED to run down anyones cattle, start rumors,or insinuate any funny business. But my small brain has trouble sometimes figuring the smallest of things.

I have been watching the semen sale on Believe In Me. I didn't get to make it to Denver to see him but had some people that I respect their opinions tell me he's the real deal. I like his picture and video and was thinking of trying to buy some semen on him but I can't see paying $100 a straw on an unproven bull when you can buy semen on a proven bull for less. I understand if he hits people with his first calves may be in the chips but unless you are running a heck of a lot of cows it's a big gamble. Just my small brain opinion.

 

[mlcattle]

it looks good for the owners, but agree, i wouldnt pay that for a new bull.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Well-I dont know where AJ is,cuz he has no problem scrapping-I would have to say that $100 per straw on a new bull is slightly pretentious-even if he has already passed on due to a" freak accident"-OH HE HASNT?=send $2.99 a minute to me-Mr Cleo-I see a prophet of doom coming to this young bull SOON  LOL-Long story short-everybodys seen the next big thing-on numerous occaisions-it is at your sole discretion that this (potentially) valuable and magnificent zenith of genetic excellance be the CADILLAC that delivers your next caf crop. You must decide-before all 50 straws of semen are GONE FOREVER !!!! O0 O0 O0

 

[OH Breeder]

I have to agree with you Mark and MCC. Little pretentious. The genetics are some of the same that are out there.

 

[easttex]

I thought about trying to get some too, but im not paying 100 dollar bill for something unproven.....yet anyway 

 

[DakotaCow]

I am glad I'm not the only person thinking this. I actually signed on to pose this very same question, at the most the seme would be selling for what?...30 dollars a unit come spring semen sales? Just kind of seems silly to me.

 

[Hoof Hearted]

I agree with you guys about not being willing to pay $100 +- for an unproven bull with a common pedigree. However on their side I would do the exact same thing as they are if I had a bull with enough hype to pull it off.
I think it is marketing genius. Just figure if they sell say 300 straws of semen for around that price this spring.  Who is going to spend that kind of money on semen then breed it to your average cow? No he will be used on the best cows to be breed or flushed with.  So this time next year the calves are all out the best cows and have a much higher shot of being really good than the normal bull selling for $25 and being bred to every common cow in the country and having plenty of calves that just are not great. That will create even more hype and semen will sell for even more and they can release more if they choose.  Then again if the calves out of all those good cows and donors are not worth a darn the whole thing could blow up in their face, but I did see him and thought he was the best bull in Denver and would not bet against this not working for them. Just my two cents.

 

[OH Breeder]

I think its great if you can capitalize on a marketing opportunity. I support sales reps all the time. but when I see an opportunity I try to evaluate it pretty hard. Here is one of the statements that I would not have used if I was trying to make my product seem special or different.
"B.I.M. is a full brother to Walks Alone, and numerous high selling steers over the years, so that shows you this is a mating that does not miss."

If he is a full brother to walks alone and they seem to saying those genetics work, then why pay $100 for your package when I can get it for $25-30 from a distributor. Kind of like you buy Walmart brand of acetaminophen or you buy Tylenol. They are all the same acetaminophen but its branding. You buy the brand. I see they are trying to create a "must have", "limited opportunity" situation. I would rather buy generic an til I see if it works. How many Heat Wave sons do we need? Not trying to be a cynical or pessimistic just offering an opinion.

 

[ZNT]

OH Breeder - I think you made a good point.  I have said the same thing about embryo transfer to an extent.  Just because a mating between a bull and a cow produce a great calf that is a high seller, doesn't mean that producing 50 more will make you rich.  Personally, I feel it tends to de-value the one you did sell for high dollars.  All of a sudden those genetics that were so unique to the buyer has just been multiplied, and is no longer so unique (no longer a happy buyer).  I am all for embryo transfer, but I do not want a flush of 25-30 of the same mating.  10-15 is just fine with me.  We apply the same philosophy in our herd.  We produced our Montego Bay bull, and now we have a full sister to him, both natural calves out of our donor cow.  We will no longer breed this cow to produce the same mating as Montego Bay.  If someone likes his genetics, they will have to use him, and not wait until we have 10 or 20 full sibs standing in a pen needing a home. JMO.

 

[Trading Paint]

Would like to congratulate these owners on a great sale and would like to thank them for bringing a good bull out for the public to see in Denver and not hiding him out with excuses of not having time to, not broke...etc  Also the picture matches the bull!!!!!  Very rare in this day and age!  Not pointing fingers at any one bull owner or photographer but this has COMPLETELY gotten out of hand!!  IMO a lot of these advertising campaigns are borderline FRAUD when it comes to the advertised picture and the bull in real life whether in Denver or at the studs.

 

[american honey]

How much dose semen run for? I know it depends on the bull and it's characteristics, but how much? 

 

[MCC]

Hoof Hearted, I agree that they have a good marketing plan if all of the sales were legit. (I'm not saying they weren't.) I also realize at that price it will be used to flush. But, unless I'm an one of the owners of the bull there is no way I going to go to the expense of flushing a cow and freezing or lining up receipts and use an unproven bull. I know it's no skin off the thing I set on, but the thing that worries me are the other bull owners setting out there thinking, " Dang if people will pay that much for an unproven bull were selling our bull way to cheap." I just hope this isn't the start of the gas price race. 

 

[cowman]

I think some of you are misguided in your cynicism. In this case who is "pretentious"? It's not the seller. The way I see it is they put themselves out there, and it might have sold for $15/straw. It was a gamble. Demand and subsequent price are determined by customers, like you. Sounds to me like you're upset b/c $100 is too much for you to justify paying. That's your opinion and I'm not arguing that, but there are enough people out there who want to pay that price and take the risk. It is what it is, really.

Would you rather he was syndicated and you didn't have the option? Why is nobody thanking them for the free promotion? I mean they are already creating publicity/demand for the calves on your behalf.

 

[Chap]

although $100 seems high. the market is being determined.  I think it is brilliant on the part of Wade and his owners to sell the first collections via auction.  How many people were on the waiting list for Walks Alone when he first hit the scene?  and how many were mad at his owners for being left out on the first available semen?  They are simply letting the market determine the value.  once the high end first produced market is satiated, i would fully expect it to bring $25-$30 to those of us not willing to gamble quite as much.  

 

[knabe]

rent a bull for $100 to sample on your herd rather than buying a bull and having him breed 25 cows and not have any diversity.

25 straws @100/unit = a bull with no feed bill, though you have to pay for AI, don't have to make/fix fence for a bull.

never really understood how anyone can complain about the price.

 

[aj]

The market will bear what the market will bear.

 

[hntwhitetail]

rent a bull for $100 to sample on your herd rather than buying a bull and having him breed 25 cows and not have any diversity.

25 straws @100/unit = a bull with no feed bill, though you have to pay for AI, don't have to make/fix fence for a bull.

never really understood how anyone can complain about the price.

good point

 

[farwest]

Numbers of calves out there dictate a bulls sucess because of inconsisyency ib these club calf bulls regardless how good the cows are. Thers thousands of junk monopolys and heatwaves. That being said. Ill spend the 30 bucks on these 2 bulls clones and watch this marketing plan blow up in there face

 

[OH Breeder]

I think some of you are misguided in your cynicism. In this case who is "pretentious"? It's not the seller. The way I see it is they put themselves out there, and it might have sold for $15/straw. It was a gamble. Demand and subsequent price are determined by customers, like you. Sounds to me like you're upset b/c $100 is too much for you to justify paying. That's your opinion and I'm not arguing that, but there are enough people out there who want to pay that price and take the risk. It is what it is, really.

Would you rather he was syndicated and you didn't have the option? Why is nobody thanking them for the free promotion? I mean they are already creating publicity/demand for the calves on your behalf.

My point being if you are going to "create" a demand create it. Using the above statements I posted does not motivate me as a consumer to purchase something that's already been done.

Pretentious because they haven't created a need for me and just because its a name selling it I will buy it. Free promotion of what? Really, seriously. If I am the consumer its there job to motivate me to buy their product. Do you thank Ford for marketing the F350? You have options Dodge, Chevy, GMC its choice. There are so many good Heat Wave sons I will take my chances. Those genetics if syndicated are obtainable- they just told me in their ad Walks Alone as well as many others.

I think its great if they can make money and make it work. Any time in this business you can find that niche that works I think is great. Grass fed beef, organic beef etc really draws consumers in.

As far as renting a bull. I have never paid less than $500 to rent a bull. Tell me where the good $100 one's are cuz I am a sucker for a bargain. Big fan of thrift store. The ones I do buy produce calves of quality that I wouldn't mind keep either way. I think you have to have confidence in your clean up bull if you are using AI as your primary source of breeding. I agree, lot more expensive to keep a bull, but for every missed cow that's money down the drain. The cost out weighs the loss for me. I use Gizmo and he's a $100 a pop on heifers. I look at that as an investment. I know what I am getting and what he produces. I also know Gizmo does not present the risk I have had with other bulls. Not complaining just my opinion, ain't worth much.  

 

[chambero]

I shouldn't speculate, but.......

We want these bulls to produce as soon as possible so we can use them.  So maybe they aren't getting a lot of semen in time for this breeding season.  If they've got demand, why not go ahead and charge for it because:

1.  It brings in more money for the limited supply to get some revenue going to offset:  normal stuff, Denver expenses, and advertisting expense
2.  It gets him used on better cows as others have said

Thinking about it, I could see some logic to charging more for a bull early in his life than in his prime.

If they charge too much, we don't buy it.