electric prod

[jnm]

I've always resisted using an electric prod when working cattle in the chute. Now the vet is agreeing with my partner and saying it's better than twisting tails and poking. I have a calm herd and want to keep it that way. Your thoughts??

 

[herefordfootball]

I wouldnt recommend it. In the chute if they dont want to walk in, we get behind them, twist the tail, come in close and push foward with your shoulder. Now obviously this results in a "poopy" shirt or coat, but its better than turning the "chute experience" into an electric show, where the calf or cow can freak when hit with the prod and start tearing stuff up. jmo

 

[Show Heifer]

I never use a hot shot. Never will. And my cows actually almost follow each other into the chute.....
If you vet is in such a hurry, I would suggest you get another vet, unless your facilities are at fault....

 

[knabe]

put them in there when they don't need working and feed them in the head gate.  use a pipe so they can't back up and just wait and move the pipe as they move. lube the chute so it's not so noisy.  it's too easy of an association for them to just not want to be there.  do your panels have walls.  do you have a bright light, ie if the chute is in a barn and the exit is outside in front of the chute that interferes with them seeing. might be other issues.  all of these things overload their senses and interfere with our sensibility.  my vet only had to tell me once that we didn't have to hurry on his account.  he would rather just keep it so it doesn't escalate over time.

on the other hand, like chambero said, low numbers is one thing, but high numbers is another.

 

[CJC]

The cows we have are dog gentle. Took them to the vet about a month ago and had to use a hot shot on them to get them in the chute. Got done with them and their still dog gentle. If you just do a quick hit on them you will be fine. Just don't shock the crap out of them. Sometimes you just got to do what you got to do. I know I wouldn't want to be working 12 head (that's the size of our herd) all day.

 

[chambero]

We use em.  If you deal with large groups of cattle that arent raised as pets I dont know how you'd ever get them worked in a reasonable time without it.  Nothing wrong with your vet for that advice.

 

[DL]

I've always resisted using an electric prod when working cattle in the chute. Now the vet is agreeing with my partner and saying it's better than twisting tails and poking. I have a calm herd and want to keep it that way. Your thoughts??

Absolutely not

There are ways to move cattle without resorting to a hot shot and there are ways to move cattle without twisting tails - go to Temple Grandins web page - if you use the point of balance you can move most cows thru a chute without even touching them

Sounds like your vet and your partner are in too big a hurry - maybe you can trade them both in for more progressive models

 

[thebulllady]

We try not to use them.. but there will always be a situation when you do need it.  Like when the trailer is nearly full, and there's one cow that won't get on, and all the others want to come back out.   Especially Brahman and Brahman influenced cattle... it seems like they are more bullheaded than most.  And don't use it on anything you're showing, or they'll be afraid of a show stick!

 

[GoWyo]

I am not against using a prod now and then and I always keep one handy when working the commercial cows.  Facility upgrades would be nice, but the fact is that the ones we have work and a hobby herd does not justify big expenditures.  When cows balk I use a prod right at the base of the tail and quickly press and release for "a little squirt of energy."  The cows seldom balk anymore and they do not get crazy in the chute.  Now all I have to do is press the prod against them without giving them juice and they move forward.  In my opinion it eliminates the whacking and tail twisting and makes things progress in an orderly fashion.  If a couple of energy squirts with the prod do not work, then do not heat them up with it because that will make them crazy and cause problems -- find another way.  JMHO, but it works.

 

[Bulldaddy]

My cows are in and out of the chute 7 or 8 times a year for breeding, shots, utlrasound, etc.  They know the routine and I hardly ever have to use a hot shot to move a cow into the chute but I do not hesitate to use one if needed.  I don't have time to try to lead them in with feed and twisting a tail would be a last resort..  All of my cows know what a hot shot is and all I usually have to do is show it to them and they move up.  Quite, firm handling works best for me.  

 

[Doc]

I've used them. Like some others are saying , hit them quick once & back off. I sure have seen a lot of broken tails over the years from idiots that keep twisting & don't know when to release the pressure on that.

 

[LN]

We only use hot shots as a very last resort. For us it's usually the heifers that cause problems in the chute because they're not used to the routine yet. The older cows that know the ropes work beautifully in the chute. A device I like to use I call the rattle paddle. They don't like the sound of the bb's rattling inside the paddle and it works really well when running calves through the chute. Also knowing how their point of balance works well too.

 

[simtal]

Been my experience that most cows don't need a hot shot for chute work. Fat cattle and calves do, IMO.

 

[Show Heifer]

I work cows with others on a regular basis. I know of many large herds (100-600 head) that NEVER use a hot shot. They use sticks with walmart sacks tied to the end of them. One farm uses 1 inch pvc pipe with a few rocks to rattle. One uses those party favor glitter things attached to a stick. They actually use the squeeky party favors to move the stubborn ones. It is absolutely amazing what people come up with when they think a bit and take the best interest of the cow into account.
I can tell everything I need to know about a ranch after about 15 head. The style of how they work their cattle usually follow how they interact with humans.
I am not condoning beating the cows with a stick, bar or anything else. Usually if your cows are not working through the chute without putting up a huge fight, then something is wrong; either with the facilities (I am not talking expensive facilities, just workable), or with the way the people are moving them.
Research Temple Grandin like DL suggested. IF you follow her advice you will actually look FORWARD to working cows, and so will the cows!!

 

[Show Heifer]

Sorry I forgot to mention, these farms work cows at a pace of 50-80 head an hour on a regular basis. So, not using a hot shot is not slowing them down.

 

[justintime]

I have worked lots of cattle in my life, and I have worked cattle at a bunch of different operations. I try not to use a hotshot, but I do have one, and try to use it very very sparingly for extreme cases. I think a quick shot with it is much better than what I see some people do when cows won't cooperate.I have a friend who says a hotshot is too extreme to use, but when he has an animal that resists moving through the chute system, he yells, screams, hits them repeatedly with his sorting stick, drives them in the ribs with the stick as hard as he can.I think a quick shot with the prod is a much better solution than that. Like any tool it has it's place and it should be used properly.

 

[Bulldaddy]

Justintime says, " I think a quick shot with it is much better than what I see some people do when cows won't cooperate.I have a friend who says a hotshot is too extreme to use, but when he has an animal that resists moving through the chute system, he yells, screams, hits them repeatedly with his sorting stick, drives them in the ribs with the stick as hard as he can.I think a quick shot with the prod is a much better solution than that. Like any tool it has it's place and it should be used properly."

You sure hit the nail on the here.  When I work my cows I never shout or yell. Like I said before, quite, firm handling and yes you will have to use a hot shot occasionally.  Another poster mentioned design of facilities and I think that is an excellent point as well.

 

[afhm]

They are a neccessary evil.  Effective when used properly and a huge problem when they aren't.

 

[knabe]

They are a neccessary evil.  Effective when used properly and a huge problem when they aren't.

men?

 

[DL]

If you have to use a hot shot to get cows thru the chute either
-you are too impatient
-there is something that bothers the cow causing her to balk, but you don't see it
-the cow associates aversive experiences with the chute
-the cow associates aversive experiences with you
-the human thinks he knows how to move cattle but when thing don't go his way he loses his temper and either yells - a cows natural instinct is not to move toward a yelling maniac
-the human thinks he knows how to move cattle but when thing don't go his way he loses his temper uses the hot shot
-if cattle working thru a chute require the use of a hot shot the problem is the human not the cow