Guaranteeing Cattle to win really?????????

[OH Breeder]

Recently my son was talking to a guy about some show calves. And he was guaranteeing my child that he would win our state fair or be in the top end “FOR SURE” if he bought a calf from him. How can this guy really feel right about guaranteeing a kid that he will win or even be in the top end with there show animal? I have only seen pictures of the calves and I am not any kind of cattle judge but there is no way possible that these calves can do what he was promising me child. Is this some kind of sale tactic to take advantage of the kids? Is it only about the money with some of the guys?

Here is my humble opinion.

There are no guarantees in life. except dying and paying taxes. I would say that to "guarantee a win i pretty strong. I would not discount any calf based on price. I have seen lots of over priced calves but every now and then you see under priced calves. My suggestion would be to take an experienced cattle person with you. Some one you trust and has a good eye. I have a few of those people I rely on from time to time. If the calves have potential then evaluate the price. Ignore the guarantee that is a sales tactic. But you never know. I have seen really good calves take awful pictures and video and live evaluation was the only way you could evaluate them. i have seen really bad calves take really good pictures. I don't agree with how he's selling but you also might find high quality calves people are willing to sell cheaper to get their name out there. I have sold calves cheaper if I knew a family was going to show and feed. And YES some folks only care about $$$ and they don't always get return customers as others have said.
I have said this before-- I have seen 10k calves look like 1000 calves in a very short time. You can screw one up lot easier than make them a winner. Lots of the structural defects can be seen at a young age. Take someone if you aren't comfortable in looking for these insights to future issues.

 

[cpubarn]

The bad news is this is a very common sales tactic.  Very frustrating to  Have the seller pump up your kid with dreams when you know the calf isn't that good, and the kid is just learning.  Checks in the mail, calf guaranteed to win state or county fair, birth weight of 85 lbs, dam is best milking cow on the farm,  I'm sure the cow stuck to the early AI date.  We have all heard it before.  Sometimes we just geta little excited, but some sellers are just plain crooks.

 

[HarrisonFun1]

We are not the only family that he has made this same promise to. There is another family in our area that has gone and saw these calves. That know a lot about cattle and they said he told there child the same thing that's why they went and looked at the calves. He said they were only county fair type calves.  When they asked him about how he was guaranteeing a "FOR SURE WIN" they said he changed his story. I guess this guy thinks he can sucker these kids in by playing that game. That is not how you get your name out there.

 

[knabe]

get a guarantee in writing with a premium from him the lower the class places.

maybe you could just leave the calf with him and just show it on show day.

 

[DLD]

A true guarantee would give you something back if the product (calf) doesn't live up to a stated expectation (let's say at least winning a class at your state show).  I'm curious if this seller ever stated what he would give back - purchase price, the difference in purchase price and true market value, a credit towards next years purchase - I've heard all those and many more.  The credit towards next years purchase thing is most common - sometimes it's legit, sometimes if you have $500 credit the $1500 ones get priced to you for $2000...  But if he's actually backing those words up with a guarantee of something tangible, then he must truly believe he has something worth guaranteeing.  If not, he's just blowing smoke.  I'm the kind of guy that if I found one there that interested me and I felt the price was right (not considering the guarantee), I might just try one and see if the guarantee held up - if so that young breeder would've made a fan of me, if not I bet I'd break him of doing so again.

As many others have said, don't discount the cattle just because they're priced lower than you expect.  We too try to price ours in line with what we believe their true potential to be but make no guarantee's of quality ( a good home can make a common one good, but a bad home can make a great one common or worse - that alone is reason enough not to guarantee results).  But if someone is just getting started and trying to get their name out there, making them affordable is a good way to get some sold. Aside from that there are other reasons good ones sometimes sell cheap - the two main ones being the seller is either in a bind for money, or they just don't have the time or place to mess with them and just want them out of their way.

All that said, I've heard time and again from breeders and traders who tell me they've got one (or several) good enough to win such and such, and you get there and they've got nothing but feeder calves.  One particular trader once told me he had several steers (full brothers to a steer that had won alot the previous year, no less) good enough to win Oklahoma City, and at a fairly reasonable price.  Now this was fairly late in the season, and he was in Texas, so it sounded too good to be true (a steer good enough to win Oklahoma City would be good enough to do his share of winning in Texas as well), but being ever the optimist, I loaded up the family I was helping and made the 7 hour one way drive to see what turned out to be his leftover cripples.  I lost whatever respect I had for that fellow that day, because I know he knew better too, and was just looking for a victim.  So, even though I did before, I take "They'll win so and so" with an even bigger grain of salt since then.

 

[vc]

Based off the information you are giving, I would venture to guess that he is a tad barn blind, perhaps young, (you did say this is their first year selling calves)
needs to work on his marketing skills and perhaps his ethics. But if he is going to guaranty it and had a calf I liked, I'd make him put it into writing what the heck.
I am not naive enough to believe that they are guarantied to win but if I get my money back if it doesn't how can you loose.

Now anyone who believes that a calf is a guarantied a winner, is naive or new to the game.

Each year we got better and better at finding goods ones and feeding them so they were where they needed to be, just so happens there are others are doing the same thing, the only time you are guarantied a winner is when you are the only one in the class or show.

 

[oakbar]

Hopefully, the seller is inexperienced and wasn't serious in what he was saying or I'm sure he'll not be selling calves very long.      Every seller is going to point out the good points of his cattle--some of us even discuss the points of concern--but to guarantee a win is absolutely idiotic and IMHO mean spirited with a young, inexperienced showman.  My experience tells me that you will get more return customers by discussing realistic goals with them and making every effort to recommend the best calf you have for their situations and price range.  Over the long haul, the relationship you build with your customer is much more important than any guarantee you can make.  Frankly, there's too many good, reputable people to buy calves from that you don't need to do business with a person who inflates his own ego or the value of his cattle in this way.JMHO

 

[Torch]

Oh come on people!! You know what he'll say if the animal doesn't preform. "You didn't feed him right" (or something like that). Which will be followed up with a pitch for selling another calf that is better than the last.

If the animal is really that good the breeder would be doing what ever he could to get the animal in the right hands so it could win your state fair. Then he would be able to post on Steer Planet how he sold a state fair champion for 2K.

JMHO

 

[GONEWEST]

I am not one who believes it ever catches up with these guys who continue to make claims. They live off the famous PT Barnham line that " A sucker is born every day."  This past spring I  heard TWO BIG name OK traders tell adults, not kids, that they really wanted to win this particular show and they would sell them an animal that would do it for a cheap price just so they could have the advertising that they had won the show. And they believed them. So far none of these calves have been near enough to the top of the class to smell the class winner, not even in a little show.

I do agree that calves that can compete at top levels CAN be found sometimes for a reasonable price. I believe finding a big league calf at a traders for a cheap price is unrealistic. I believe guaranteeing winning a show is unrealistic. I believe telling people they will win anything is unethical but I do not believe it hurts those who do it. It seems to be a sales pitch that works

 

[LostFarmer]

We picked up calves last weekend.  I talked to the breeder and told him want we wanted.  When looking at the calves he would say that at most county shows this calf if properly fed and fitted should be in the upper half.  This calf should be at or near the top.  This calf could take off and get to the final drive but given the genetic she could pud out.  He was pretty honest about what he was telling the kids.  He also told them the only guarantee that he would make is that if they would wear out at least one rice root brush per calf then they would have good hair and the calves would be ready to show.  He then gave the kids each a brush.  His own kids get the left overs or the best of the commercial feeder calves.  In the end they are at or near the top of a 50 + steer show.  So did he make a guarantee?  Yes, but it was more in the thoughts of hard work is what will make it happen. 

 

[chambero]

Look at the website ads here in Tx next year and see how many calves have one-liner captions like "Fort Worth class winner", "slick shear breed champion", etc.  From supposedly reputable sellers.  I'm guessing those statements help because the people making them aren't dumb, but I bet they have a lot of one time customers.

 

[fed_champions]

If it was a real guarantee, he would offer your money back if u don't win. Even the best cattle minds can't make that prediction and be right more than 25% of the time. If they could make a guarantee like that, then the highest priced steer would win. In reality ive seen a lot more 20000 dollar steers get the gate than ive seen win a major show.

 

[PaFFA Proud]

We picked up calves last weekend.  I talked to the breeder and told him want we wanted.  When looking at the calves he would say that at most county shows this calf if properly fed and fitted should be in the upper half.  This calf should be at or near the top.  This calf could take off and get to the final drive but given the genetic she could pud out.  He was pretty honest about what he was telling the kids.  He also told them the only guarantee that he would make is that if they would wear out at least one rice root brush per calf then they would have good hair and the calves would be ready to show.   He then gave the kids each a brush.  His own kids get the left overs or the best of the commercial feeder calves.  In the end they are at or near the top of a 50 + steer show.  So did he make a guarantee?  Yes, but it was more in the thoughts of hard work is what will make it happen. 

Awwwww I didnt get a free brush with mine....lol rip-offs, JK  (lol)

 

[cowboybecoachin]

I cannot, as a breeder, gauantee a calf will win. I WILL point out, that a heifer we sell will be at least a top ten heifer if fed/shown correctly, based on our success of the past.

We probably lose sales because of our reasonable prices. We have a $3,000 heifer that beat a $25,000 heifer at every show the past year. Some folks think if you pay more, you have a better calf. The "steer jocks" love you guys.

I have sold county champion steers for $1500 that brought over $5,000 at their county sale.

We sold the Spring Calf Angus Heifer Division Champ at Ft. Worth this year for $3,000.

We sold a Division Champion @ San Antonio for $2250.

My thought on this post, is, if you are dissatisfied with your current show heifer/steer provider, you need to come see us!


Honest cattle at honest , reasonable prices.

 

[cowgirl864]

you go cbc

 

[cash-n-in]

well who cares if he garentees them or not,    go look at them.
Then if u think theyre worth buying for whatevr he's selling them for then buy one.
If he's pricing them under prolly 4k then theyre prolly not good enough to win a state imo.
At my state fair this year the winner paid like 46k for there steer and reserve was about the same.

REALLY?... its  not the amount of money you pay that makes you win... We have raised our own competed at the top and really havn't put in money even close to 40 ,000+ dollars.. I think it is all politics these days but you really cant forget that this was all suppose to be a 4-h project.. "a learning" experiences and here your saying.. gotta spend 40,000? wow some people have a lot of other things to do then spend that kind of money on one steer.. face it you won't even come close to making that back..lol.. so reason with me, how in the world can you afford that? all to win one big show?.. i rather place in the top and work hard with a cheap steer than buying  one that wont  even pay the bills... sorry i just don't see the logic...

 

[PaFFA Proud]

well who cares if he garentees them or not,    go look at them.
Then if u think theyre worth buying for whatevr he's selling them for then buy one.
If he's pricing them under prolly 4k then theyre prolly not good enough to win a state imo.
At my state fair this year the winner paid like 46k for there steer and reserve was about the same.

REALLY?... its  not the amount of money you pay that makes you win... We have raised our own competed at the top and really havn't put in money even close to 40 ,000+ dollars.. I think it is all politics these days but you really cant forget that this was all suppose to be a 4-h project.. "a learning" experiences and here your saying.. gotta spend 40,000? wow some people have a lot of other things to do then spend that kind of money on one steer.. face it you won't even come close to making that back..lol.. so reason with me, how in the world can you afford that? all to win one big show?.. i rather place in the top and work hard with a cheap steer than buying  one that wont  even pay the bills... sorry i just don't see the logic...

AMEN...well said with this economy spending 40k+ on a steer is unbelievable. People forget in the youth showing its supposed to be an learning experience...why teach our kids that money buys everything and that work isnt needed

 

[farmin female]

Interesting discussion.  The price of a calf is pretty much like your age, its just a number.  I have generally found that the more we pay for a calf, the more we can be disappointed.  It's a heck of a lot more fun and educational to put in some time and look for those diamonds in the rough.  And, it much more satisfying. 

No one can guarantee a win except the judge.  We do business with people who we feel are ethical and honest.  For example, we bought a 5k steer a couple years ago that looked pretty good during the sale.  And it was a bid off sale so I wasn't the only one who thought the calf was decent.  We got the calf home and that calf just wasn't a good eater and he never did bulk up.  The breeder suggested some things and we tried some of our own but nothing worked.  Calf ended up ok but thats it.  But, the breeder clips the calves for us, he trims feet, he is available to come by and look and give suggestions and I know he was disappointed the calf didn't perform like he wanted either.  I still buy calves from this guy because of the service he will give and because he just tells you how it is.  And he doesn't make any crazy statements like guaranteeing a win.  Of course, I am old enough to not believe most of the drivel you hear anyway. 

At the end of the day its your money.  You choose how to spend it and if the calf doesn't perform as stated, the only one to blame is the one looking back at you in the mirror.  No one made you buy him. 

By the way, for all those people out there paying 40K plus for steers, I got some river front land to sell you.... ;D

 

[vc]

I love it when the price of steers or even heifers comes up, to me it is really nobodies business what you payed for your animal, if you have it and you think it is worth it, buy it. That being said, anybody that pays more than they can sell their project animal for is not really reaching their projects objective.

Now if you are going to haul the animal around to all the jackpots, plan on showing it as a fat at one of the majors, and can spend 40,000 with out blinking an eye more power to you. My feeling is it cost the same for everything else so at least find one that can stand near the top of your class once and awhile. You may find a good one out there before the traders do and only pay around $2000 for the animal but I bet it cost that much to find it some times (hotels, rentel cars, plane flights, hauling) We live on the west coast and I would never buy one with out seeing it in person first.

I will be pulling for the guy or girl who spent 2500 to beat you but that is because I loves the under dog.

 

[HarrisonFun1]

Well I am so glad we went to the show last weekend he in Conway, AR.. My son got to see this steer that this guy was guaranteeing to be in the top 20 at state get last in class. And the judge said  he would not be able to walk any better the older he gets.  I think he saw that he was getting played for a sucker. It is sad because the kid that he sold the steer to was told the same line of BS. I would like to thank all you guys for your comments.