farmboy
Well-known member
ashamed his legs are all outta wack, looks like a dang nice calf <cowboy>
Heatwave 1 calves
- Thread starter lowann
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Jill
Well-known member
We have had tons of Heat Waves and never had one with it, I'm guessing it's one of those thing that both parents have to carry.
That's it. Pitiful isn't it. The pictures of our calf this year doesn't really show it, but it was a much milder case than our previous two. They looked a lot like yours.
I'll be surprised if both parents have to carry it, but who knows. We had one problem bull, but cows bloodlines have been pretty random (although all were Maine or Simi crosses).
I'll be surprised if both parents have to carry it, but who knows. We had one problem bull, but cows bloodlines have been pretty random (although all were Maine or Simi crosses).
Maybe not, but it seems to me that there would be more cases if it was a simple recessive gene. Especially since, according to the Merk manual it is found in most all breeds. By "a recessive gene(s) with incomplete penetrance" does that mean incomplete if they have a gene from both parents or incomplete if they carry only one? (which would be redundant)
knabe
Well-known member
if we are lucky, the incomplete penetrance is due to more than one mutation within the gene, with the more mutations or where the mutations are, affecting expression levels of a gene. this may be a little complicated to communicate what one should do to "manage" it. if it's two markers or changes, this would be two reactions, but they could be multiplexed (performed in the same reaction) if again lucky. this condition is in humans with incomplete penetrance as well and many DNA locations found. after reviewing this gene, it is apparent this gene is, could be a snowballing problem. perhaps monkey mouth will turn out to be the same sort of test, as it too has incomplete penetrance. i guess what would be unlucky, is if the incomplete penetrance would be a duplication of a gene like hunnington's disease. that would be annoying.
farmboy
Well-known member
Jenny
Well-known member
Thank you so much for sharing the pictures and the experiences with all of us; lots of breeders hide problems like this in the back 40 and never talk about them.
What a wonderful opportunity to learn so much here from all!
Thanks again!
What a wonderful opportunity to learn so much here from all!
Thanks again!
Bawndoh
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2007
- Messages
- 720
lowann said:
What will you end up doing with a calf like this??
Jenny said:
Most breeders don't even know what this is when they get one. For that matter, most vets don't either. I had to tell our vet what was wrong with our calf this year. When I did, he remembered it from school. I remember seeing a Maine heifer with it 10-15 years ago that came down with it sometime around a year old. Another guy in our town was showing her for someone. They kept feeding her because the breeder demanded that she be flushed.
shortyjock89
Well-known member
We had a steer that came down with it at about a year old. He was a really really good steer until we got a bad batch of feed, and he was the only one who would eat it. I thought that he had foundered or something. It wasn't super severe, but we definitely didn't show him any more after that.
lowann
Well-known member
We will not let him suffer. He still gets around to nurse,creep feed, and water. He will go into the barn where we have a special pen for the calves that is bedded with straw. Nice and soft for him. His days are numbered. I think he would have been really good if this hadn't happened. He showed allot of promise when he was little. This came on very quickly. Approximately a week and a half and it's this bad already. His Mother has had some really good calves, all have been shown-but him.
lowann said:
Not to sound cold hearted, but why would you continue to feed him another day if his "days are numbered?" Isn't just doing away with him as soon as possible the smart thing to do as so he doesn't use any more resources. Creep feed is not cheap...
lowann
Well-known member
Sorry it took so long to reply, but we are having storms here, through Monday. We will have to put off doing anything with him till it clears up, and we can dig a hole. Until then he will be well cared for. I will see to that.
farmboy
Well-known member
when ever we have one die or put down, we just drag it up the hill in the woods...
knabe said:
Knabe, I am sorry, I have a post-graduate degree, but you lost me, lol. Can you define incomplete penetrance? The Wyckepedea defines it similar to a recessive gene where you need one from each parent to have the phentypic expression. Can you help me out?
knabe
Well-known member
in simplest terms, it means that one mutation is insufficient to cause 100% of the symptoms.
here's a summary of hunningtons disease that's pretty concise. this disease not only is a problem in that a trinucleotide repeat can cause the problem, but multiple copies of the entire gene region, and trinucleotide repeats within each gene region. so how does one induce this disease in the individuals that should have the disease, but don't? ugh, now we're into ethics.
http://www.hdac.org/features/article.php?p_articleNumber=388
http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/126/7/1599
basically, to me, it means there is more than one source of the problem. usually, there isn't enough selection pressure on a region to get rid of the region of interest so that the wild type could be more conserved.
enzymes tend to slip moving through repeat regions, so the dna may not always be faithfully reproduced, even with all the error checking mechanisms.
here's a summary of hunningtons disease that's pretty concise. this disease not only is a problem in that a trinucleotide repeat can cause the problem, but multiple copies of the entire gene region, and trinucleotide repeats within each gene region. so how does one induce this disease in the individuals that should have the disease, but don't? ugh, now we're into ethics.
http://www.hdac.org/features/article.php?p_articleNumber=388
http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/126/7/1599
basically, to me, it means there is more than one source of the problem. usually, there isn't enough selection pressure on a region to get rid of the region of interest so that the wild type could be more conserved.
enzymes tend to slip moving through repeat regions, so the dna may not always be faithfully reproduced, even with all the error checking mechanisms.
CAB
Well-known member
Zach, I'd be careful not to put that info up on a public forum. You may could get into some trouble with improper disposal of a dead animal. FYI.
Iowann, is there a chance that your calf could make it to the freezer without suffering much?, if so, that's what I would aim for. If you can get him on feed early & possibly buther young, he would more than likely make a good locker prospect. JMO.
Iowann, is there a chance that your calf could make it to the freezer without suffering much?, if so, that's what I would aim for. If you can get him on feed early & possibly buther young, he would more than likely make a good locker prospect. JMO.
red
Well-known member
CAB said:
Really- no burying carcasses in Ohio anymore. We compost ours now.
Red
CAB
Well-known member
A lot of composting here in Iowa and we still have the option of having a by-products truck pick up for a fee. Most of the large hog operations have big composting bins.
