Help make our steers clubby!

[4Ts4H]

Hey all.  Greetings from the frozen upper midwest!  How is it that I just found this website today???  Well anyway, we have been showing our home raised, bull bred cattle at county fairs for a few years now, and have been fairly successful (only one year did we not have a top 10% calf in shows averaging 75 head).  We are now looking to begin an AI program.  Year in and year out, we have the same faults holding us back from really wowing people.  #1 - our calves lack that showy style, in other words they always say we have very solid county fair calves.  #2 - we lack that killer extension out front, our cattle are not wasty-just short necked.  #3 - we could benefit from an extra rib in a lot of instances-the calves are just to short bodied to be really balanced.

We feel real good about our cows, but it is definitely time to introduce some new genetics.  The bulk of the cow herd has a strong Maine influence.  The bulls we are using have sired about half of the 100 cows in the herd.  They have Strictly Business, Who Made Who, and All About You in them.

What bulls would anyone recommend to address the three issues above and maybe offer better hair and color mixes.

P.S.
I just read through the tread about the family that lost their heifer :'(, so excuse my mistiness if I didn't get my point across.
I look forward to really getting into this community.  From what I have read today, everyone here shows genuine concern for their fellow cattlemen

 

[Doc]

(welcome) Glad you have joined our ranks at the best site .

 

[KDSC]

(welcome) (welcome) (welcome) (welcome) (welcome) (welcome) (welcome) (welcome) (welcome) (welcome) Oh and  (welcome) ;D ;D Ok sorry I will stop ;D Can we get pictures of some of your cows??? Do I need them. no, But i have nothing to do this weekend, so I will have something to do ;D  It sounds like you have a very good set of cows built up with who made who and Strictly Bussiness in them. You need bulls that wil add some rib, Neck extension and that show look?? right or wrong? Once again  (welcome)

 

[farmboy]

clubby, get some sunseeker in there, id use him on a clean fronted cow cuz he tends to throw a "chunky " neck, he is THC so be careful on which cows you use him on with maine and shorthorn influence.

 

[KDSC]

Here are a few, Have fun Looking at all those ;D ;D I think some of them would do real good

hard core-good for heifers  http://topsires.com/bull-pages/hardcore.html

about time  http://topsires.com/bull-pages/abouttime.html

Kadabra, might get some crazy hair O0 :'( http://topsires.com/bull-pages/kadabra.html

Whiskey 7  PHAC :'( http://topsires.com/bull-pages/whiskey7.html

Bleeding Purple THC  http://topsires.com/bull-pages/bleedinpurple.html

Bussiness done right, maybe not since some of you cows are strictly bussiness
http://topsires.com/bull-pages/businessdoneright.html

Golden Child THC  http://topsires.com/bull-pages/goldenchild.html

Hannibal  http://topsires.com/bull-pages/hannibal.html

Friction look at him under my other post AI sires TONS of rib
http://topsires.com/bull-pages/friction.html

Jimmy the greek might get some Hot headed calves http://topsires.com/bull-pages/jimmythegreek.html

Sun Seeker  http://topsires.com/bull-pages/sunseeker.html

Wild Card  http://topsires.com/bull-pages/wildcard.html

 

[4Ts4H]

Don't have any cow pics right now, and its just to friggin' cold to go outside this weekend here.  Yes that is exactly what we are looking for.

Aargh!  It is going to take some time to learn how to do all the nifty tricks in this.

 

[KDSC]

Do you know the PHA and TH status on your herd??

 

[shorthorns r us]

i assume you used an all about you son in your herd.  do you still have the all about you son?  if so and if you don't know his status, i would strongly recommend having him tested for Tibial Himemalia, more commonly known as TH.  if you aren't aware, TH is a fatal genetic condition, which all about you happens to carry.  the reason that i bring this up is that the most dominate show steer sire of today, Heat Wave, is also a TH carrier.  Heat Wave, his clones, and many sons, most of which are TH carriers, are prominantly used AI sires.  Statistically, your all about you son had a 50-50 chance of being a carrier.  if he was a carrier, his daughters in your herd have that same 50-50 chance of being carriers.  When you mate two carriers, 25% of the calves will be perfectly normal and free of TH, 50% will be carriers of the TH gene, and the remaining 25% will suffer from the condition of TH.  TH calves are not a pretty site and must be put down.  there is a test available to determine TH status.  

i hope that you are already aware of TH and i just wasted a few minutes typing.

there is another genetic defect that is common in club calf sires known as PHA.  The tree sires you mention are not carriers of that defect; so, unless your herd bulls received the gene from their dams, which is possible, you will be OK there.  if you are not aware of PHA, there is a post with a link to avideo of a cow requiring a c-section, which is common of PHA calves.

i breed shorthorns and have a belly full of both of these disorders.  my suggestion is to avoid them both.  however, if you don't mind lots of blood testing, mating noncarriers to carriers never results in a dead calf.

 

[4Ts4H]

Yeah, I've spent a number of hours looking into this "fun" that is the PHA/TH question one must now ask.  As we do not know the status of the herd, but we have never seen an abnormality.  I guess that by the law of averages, we could assume that the current bulls are not carriers.  Would have to test the cows.  I have been focusing on choosing the best of the know free sires for this calf crop.

 

[KDSC]

Alot of times if you have a cow, that has more bone and hair, than the others, she will probally have TH, I would defiantly have your bulls tested, and then if one of them is a carrier, then I would either test the cows that you have kept back from that perticular bull or just breed them to th free bulls, If you have any more questions just ask

 

[AAOK]

4Ts4H,

You explain your cows as very solid (which I take to mean structurally sound), but plain, with short necks and bodies.  My suggestion would be to raise your Maine-Anjou influence with high percentage MA bulls.  There are several older, larger framed Maine-Anjou bulls which I believe would get you where you need to be by increasing frame. My top three would be FR Magic, Paydirt, and Polleroid.  All will extend the front, add length of body, increase frame and style. 

 

[KDSC]

but getting semen on those :'(

 

[red]

Majors Moneyman might work on cleaning up the necks. I sure liked Hard Core & he didn't downsize my cow. Both are clean of all defects.

Also a great big Hello!!

Red

 

[AAOK]

but getting semen on those :'(

All three were readily available the last time I checked.  If not, go to the breeders.  They're always willing to deal.  I've NEVER not been able to get a semen i needed!

 

[4Ts4H]

I wouldn't say that the cows are the problem as we have held back the most extended for replacements.  It just seems that there is a high percentage of the calves that are short in the front and rib.

 

[Jill]

Free: The 1st 3 will give you Maine calves-Stickly Business, Hairy Bear, Dr. Who, Who Made Who,Mama's Boy-like the looks haven't used him

?-Jazz, Hoo Too, Chill Factor

Carrier-If I was going to use a carrier it would be Heat Wave, but not everyone feels the same way I do
Sun Seeker, Mossy Oak, Manchild, Heat Seeker, Dr. Hook, Cherry Bomb, Checks in the mail-seen some really nice calves out of these bulls

 

[garybob]

You have definately asked the right question to the right group of people.

Welcome aboard.

GB

 

[KDSC]

Free: The 1st 3 will give you Maine calves-Stickly Business, Hairy Bear, Dr. Who, Who Made Who,Mama's Boy-like the looks haven't used him

?-Jazz, Hoo Too, Chill Factor

Carrier-If I was going to use a carrier it would be Heat Wave, but not everyone feels the same way I do
Sun Seeker, Mossy Oak, Manchild, Heat Seeker, Dr. Hook, Cherry Bomb, Checks in the mail-seen some really nice calves out of these bulls

Dr.who is a Who made who son, so you might not want to use him on your Who influenced cows.