Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing

[aj]

Who is DMH?

 

[aj]

The DMH Felix bull really interests me.

 

[librarian]

Who is DMH?

DMH Cattle Company. Scroll down to Minnesota on this Heritage Shorthorn Society Breeders page. Their program is essentially crossing old Heritage beef sires from the pool of semen Roy Lovaas assembled on Native Shorthorn cows. Then they use the sons and daughters from those matings in different combinations useful in different contexts. Native/ Hertage Shorthorn genetics range from milking to beef type. The Haumont Maid of Promise 189th cow and the Rosabell 436th cow have worked especially well in the beef type crosses....or so I think.
  https://www.heritageshorthorn.org/breeders

 

[librarian]

The DMH Felix bull really interests me.

That Cat 20 is a type changer.

 

[aj]

I hate to jump the gun or anything......would he be up for sale or rent in a couple years?

 

[librarian]

maybe. I'll remember you want him when the time comes. He still has a long way to go to prove himself.

 

[idalee]

Nice calves!    Too bad there is no weaning weights recorded.  Also,  with birth weights of 72 and 74 pounds,  yet they still have a recorded calving ease of 2.    Is this owner just a nervous nellie,  or did they really need a little  help?    Births weights that small should just spit them out without thinking.    Finally,  with all the talk about Myostatin,  are  you going to have them tested?

 

[RyanChandler]

Other than a testament to the quality of the environment they were raised in, what other insight would an actual weaning weight provide you with?

 

[oakview]

Performance, indicated to some degree by weaning weight, ADG, and yearling weight certainly has some significance to me.  Many of you aren't old enough to remember 350-400 pound weaning weights on good Iowa bluegrass pasture, but I am.  I am more interested in calves that have the genetic ability to perform much better than that on my same pasture, handled the same way.  I don't need a lecture on the efficiencies of small cows.  The cows that raised those 350 pound calves didn't come close to weaning half their body weight.  Their udders hung so low the calves had to almost lie down to nurse.  I don't care what anybody else does, but I'm not real interested in cattle that look like Clipper King of Bapton or Cat 20.  If you ever have a chance, read the Leader 21 story from the old Thomas-Gordon-Draper sales catalogs.  He was an outlier, not at all like the other bulls in the sale where Bob Gordon bought him. That's why he bought him so cheap.  He became popular as a show sire.  That's why ABS had him and there's so much semen around.  He sired some performance and increased frame size.  If you'd look through the old Shorthorn Worlds, about half of the Shorthorn bulls advertised in the late 60's and early 70'w were sons of Leader 21.  Breeders were looking for what he offered.  Most of the heritage bulls that are being used today, were also popular  show sires in their day.  I have semen in my tanks from a dozen of those old bulls.  All but one was either a good show bull in his day or sired some show winners. 

 

[aj]

I do know that the bulk of Shorthorn cattle today are for the show ring. I bet I have bought seven of these show ring type bulls and zero of them had enough fleshing ability to last in my environment. These cattle don't deserve to be even looked at in todays beef industry. I don't think that that just a little bit of fleshing ability would hurt the breed right now. I get so sick of the show ring lines of cattle that have a feed bucket of show feed permanently tied to their head. It makes me cry that this is where 90% of the cattle are.....in the breed right now.

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

But environment. We all raise them in a different one. I left the calves on the cows until just now. April/ May calves. My roan bulled weighed 750 today when we walked him across the scale. Is that a testament to his growth or my ability to provide enough fresh forage each day to maximize his growth potential. His dam weighs 1200 pounds wet. Ears half froze off. But she made a athletic bull calf that is a hog. I am in charge of running cows here on 500 acres of mostly fescue/ clover and bluegrass. Will the same animal that thrives here thrive in your environment AJ? I don’t know. The cows here have to walk a lot to graze and drink. A lot. But the grass is asshole deep too.

 

[oakview]

His performance is a direct reflection of his ability to grow and perform in the environment you provide.  Some of the older type bulls I did not like would sire calves that couldn't approach 500 pounds in the time yours took to reach 750.  Some bulls of today wouldn't either, for that matter.  If you've got cows you're happy with that raise calves that you're happy with, I wouldn't change a thing.  The trick is to find the next herd sire that improves or at least maintains what you've got. 

Show type cattle have needed a shot of real fleshing ability for a long time.  It's easier to make them look "fuller" with all the who knows what that's done to some of them, but it doesn't help them in the pasture.  I've had pretty good luck over the years either raising my own bulls or purchasing them from folks that raise them similarly to how I do.     

 

[beebe]

Performance, indicated to some degree by weaning weight, ADG, and yearling weight certainly has some significance to me.  Many of you aren't old enough to remember 350-400 pound weaning weights on good Iowa bluegrass pasture, but I am.  I am more interested in calves that have the genetic ability to perform much better than that on my same pasture, handled the same way.  I don't need a lecture on the efficiencies of small cows.  The cows that raised those 350 pound calves didn't come close to weaning half their body weight.  Their udders hung so low the calves had to almost lie down to nurse.  I don't care what anybody else does, but I'm not real interested in cattle that look like Clipper King of Bapton or Cat 20.  If you ever have a chance, read the Leader 21 story from the old Thomas-Gordon-Draper sales catalogs.  He was an outlier, not at all like the other bulls in the sale where Bob Gordon bought him. That's why he bought him so cheap.  He became popular as a show sire.  That's why ABS had him and there's so much semen around.  He sired some performance and increased frame size.  If you'd look through the old Shorthorn Worlds, about half of the Shorthorn bulls advertised in the late 60's and early 70'w were sons of Leader 21.  Breeders were looking for what he offered.  Most of the heritage bulls that are being used today, were also popular  show sires in their day.  I have semen in my tanks from a dozen of those old bulls.  All but one was either a good show bull in his day or sired some show winners.

In my opinion big should be measured in pounds rather than inches.  Clipper King of Bapton weighed 2650 pounds that is big enough for me.  I am sure Cat 20 weighed well over a ton.  I have a young granddaughter of Clipper King of Bapton that my granddaughter showed in 4H that still has not had any grain.  I believe she has a bright future in producing grass fed genetics.  I recently sold a steer that weighed 1250 and hung an 830 pound carcass that sold for $2.80 a pound hanging weight.  He was a straight Native Shorthorn whose mama was might weigh 1200 and his daddy is not quite a frame score 4.  That is profitable.

 

[Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR]

Well, nothing is changed. Show winners on the semen catalogues on the past, and show winners on the catalogues today. All stay equall on the end.

 

[Jacob B]

Oak view....extremely wise words couldn’t say it better. Do what works for you. Not what someone else tells you works for you wherever you are in this world. There is a huge disconnect from the real world and what we can do to an animal to make em expectable in the show ring. Do what works for you and what makes you happy for whatever end of spectrum you enjoy

 

[Jacob B]

Plus, why should I talk about what the post is intended for. That’s not what we do on this board anymore, we always make it a fight to tell others what they should do. Who cares about what the original poster was asking haha

 

[knabe]

All threads eventually jump the shark and then they become like the word thread.


it's not good or bad.


people who want more content might try providing content or whatever.


don't expect a 100% related response.


it's just the way it is.


there is more information on this website regarding cattle than just about all the others combined.

 

[RyanChandler]

Oak view....extremely wise words couldn’t say it better. Do what works for you. Not what someone else tells you works for you wherever you are in this world. There is a huge disconnect from the real world and what we can do to an animal to make em expectable in the show ring. Do what works for you and what makes you happy for whatever end of spectrum you enjoy

What is it that is working for you?

 

[RyanChandler]

Oakview do you still have your leader 9th son? I want to buy him if so

 

[knabe]

https://www.heritageshorthorn.org/classic-bulls/j-to-z#kinnaber-leader-9