Hill Haven Fire Storm 28C

[idalee]

I do use EPD in my breeding decisions.  Not as a last word,  but as a tool.  Furthermore,  I can see in some of my embryo purchases that I should have used that tool  a lot more!  Secondly,  when a result is substantially the same from two disparate processes,  that tends to validate both processes.  So,  yes I have some level of confidence in genomic testing of Shorthorn cattle and that confidence will increase as more and more cattle are tested.  That goes directly to the heifer incentive program recently offered by ASA.  Genomic EPD enhancements have the power to increase both the accuracy and honesty of EPD evaluations.  In regards calving ease,  it would appear that the $CEZ is more useful than any of the individual components of that index by themselves.     

 

[aj]

My God......cutting all bulls with a birth weight over 110 pounds? That is so noble.....bahahahahahahahah. You guys live in a completely different world than the one in the high plains of the United States. To each area his own I guess. Bahahahahahahahah

 

[mark tenenbaum]

I thought the Hi plains were in Colorado or something-my bad there dont seem to be any in Colorado My bad you must be taking about Dunkirk Iowa or something O0

 

[aj]

The high plains includes all or some of the following states.Nebraska, Colorado, Texas, Oklahoma, New Mexico, South Dakota and Wyoming and Kansas. Essentially the top cow\calf producing states in the United States.

 

[justintime]

Guys and girls.. I have no dog in this hunt. I just gave you my honest opinions on Fire Storm. I have talked with several people who have calves on the ground from him, and not one of them has made any comments about calving issues. If you don't want to use him, that is perfectly fine. If you don't like his EPDs, that is perfectly fine as well. Personally, I think Shorthorn EPDs are moving in the right direction, but I don't think they are where they need to be yet. I used a bull here a few years ago, that many of you bashed very hard. I used him because he had the most performance of any bull I have ever produced and did this with a modest BW. I was bashed almost beyond belief, but I felt this bull deserved as chance to be used. He sired 5 calf crops here and I did not assist a single calf born from him. 99% of his bulls went to commercial cattlemen, and I did not have a single complaint about calving issues. Not a single one. After his 3rd calf crop I contacted the ASA as I was told his EPDs would improve over time. I had not helped a single calf to be born, but his EPDs had barely moved, I was told that they would definitely move as more data was sent in. I continued to send in my data and they still hardly moved. One of my best bull customers is still using 2 sons of this bull and he runs 400 cows and calves on grass. He recently told me he hopes he can use these two bulls for few more years especially since their daughters have come into production. If I had listened to all the doom and gloom some of you here had given me, I would have not used a very important breeding bull here that did an excellent job. I retained a son of him that was even better than his sire. I sold him as a 8 year old bull last year and I am now working on selling all the semen left on him to another breeder. The European and Australian semen rights have been sold as well. I think we have to use our heads when breeding cattle as well as any other tool we have available. I think both these bulls helped improve my herd, and their genetics are now being used all over the world. If I had just listened to the wisdom provided on Steerplanet, I would have missed out on some of the best breeding bulls I have ever owned. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but we all have to use our heads in breeding better cattle... not just emotions.
In regards to my banding any calf over 110 lbs, that was a BW I picked for no apparent reason many years ago. It was a place to start.  I was planning to move it lower if it was too high based on any issues that arose. I have not had any complaints from over 400 bulls sold since I set this as my high mark for BW. I prefer my bulls to be less than 100 lbs and most are in the 90 lb range. In our environment, I have started to tell bull customers that if their cows cannot have a 90 lb calf on their own, they better sell their cows and buy some that will. I have very good friends that raise Angus cattle, and I cannot believe the number of calves they have that are over 100 lbs at birth. With all this in mind, I think we would be better off, if we started talking more about calving ease as opposed to just talking about birth weights. Birth weights are part of the equation but so is calving ease.
Getting back to Fire Storm, I have absolutely no interest in him, other than I like the bull. I have seen his dam many times and she is the type of female that most of us would agree than any good bull should have. She is a beautiful female with an outstanding record of producing good offspring. That is all I know. Time will tell and I am quite sure we will know a lot more within the next few months, as more calves from Fire Storm are born. Right now, all I know is I like a lot of things this bull offers. I know a lot of people are using him. I know that embryos sired by him are selling fast to breeders in many countries. We will know soon if all these people are completely mad in using him! 

 

[aj]

I know a guy who had 2,639 cows as of January 1st. In two states. His cut off for a bull birth weight is right around 80 pounds. If you think he oughta sell his cows.......you better pack your lunch.....and have at least an ar15 with you. You said you sold 99% of the one bulls sons to commercial guys.....? So you must have sold exactly 100 sons to come up with that number. Bless your heart.

 

[aj]

And don't get me wrong. I am glad the Shorthorn breed is thriving in the show cattle world. They are good cattle. A lot of Shorthorn cows can have a 110 pound calf. That's great. They have a good disposition. The Shorthorn breed has what...........about a 1 % market share in selling bulls to commercial people in North America? Shorthorn breeders of today tend to tell commercial people how to run their operations. When the Shorthorn breed listens to what the beef cow industry wants and needs.......they might actually become a player in the industry.

 

[oakview]

Judging from the results of the recently released MARC data, maybe the cattle industry should listen a little to what the Shorthorn breed has to say.  I certainly hope this data is well publicized. 

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

Got a link to that newly released data? I’d like to read that.

 

[oakview]

It's on the ASA website and some of it was in the January issue of Shorthorn Country.  I'll have to see if my daughter can help me post it.  Several breeds were tested for numerous traits including ADG, yield grade, backfat, quality grade, etc.  I'll let you judge the results for yourself, but in my opinion, they need to be plastered all over the bulletin boards of every sale barn, sent to every feed yard, and mailed to every feedlot order buyer in the US and Canada.  After seeing the results, it's hard for me to figure out why "They're worth more if they're black."

As long as I'm writing, I might as well voice my displeasure with the personal attacks on SP.  I wish there was a way they could be edited or removed all together.  It's pretty easy for somebody to publicly complain on a faceless computer when something doesn't go their way.  Life happens.  Unpleasant things have happened to all of us.  We want everything to work out perfectly for all of our friends and customers, but sometimes they don't.  We've all been on both sides.  I sincerely want everyone who has ever bought cattle from me to make a million dollars or win the national championship.  I believe most everyone I've ever bought cattle from wants the best for me.  I don't think there's any place on SP for what could be interpreted as defamation of character or blackmail. 

 

[aj]

If I remember right......academia brought us to the "baby beef" belt buckle cattle. The cow calf people who have survived the last 30 years ought to be listened to. They don't give a damn about a full brother to a national champion bull. The ones who did went broke 20 years ago.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

And don't get me wrong. I am glad the Shorthorn breed is thriving in the show cattle world. They are good cattle. A lot of Shorthorn cows can have a 110 pound calf. That's great. They have a good disposition. The Shorthorn breed has what...........about a 1 % market share in selling bulls to commercial people in North America? Shorthorn breeders of today tend to tell commercial people how to run their operations. When the Shorthorn breed listens to what the beef cow industry wants and needs.......they might actually become a player in the industry.//// This Is Darrel Jenkins the West Va cowpoke-Wheres tha black Shorthorns ? O0

 

[RyanChandler]

I have just ordered another 20 straws, which makes 90 straws that I have used so far. 

I actually just got another 20 straws of Fire Storm since I posted the last post so I now have got 110 straws.

Getting back to Fire Storm, I have absolutely no interest in him, 

Devils in the details

 

[mark tenenbaum]

I agree -the devil is also in the genetics-and they will come back to haunt sometines quite a few generations later This is an example of the show cattle epds-heres a Waco son I thought was cool looking etc but his Shadybrook dam-also very nice in the pictures ALSO went back to what could be called popular Canadian breeding-It sure aint CE-Hes been on Semex for several years so he had to have been used some or they would not have kept him up there with the other 3 Shorthorns Hes called  Blenview Chaser204 C hes Sired by Waco SUPPOSEDLY WAS 96 pounds at birth -And only 3 calves have been registered out of him -one a heifer at 115 pounds Waco was used alot-and may even have better EPDS than Salute first and second hand There have been ALOT of trainwrecks from both of them and the well known syndicated others-so much for EPDS across the board And its a good thing the huddled masses and the unworthy are far away from these genetics O0

 

[aj]

Interesting.........

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

Interesting.........

Indeed. Let’s exercise the demons folks. Right here. Right now.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

i aint that extreme-just research the cattle before u breed. The worst thing Ive seen other than the flat out liars in Shorthorns is how they shoot down and badmouth almost any useful animal  that alot of different people from outside the breed use-Two examples-good or bad that BROUGHT THE BREED TO LIFE INSPITE OF THE MIS DESCRIBED GENETICS OF THE POPULAR CATTLE  WERE DOUBLE STUFF AND PROUD JAZZ-both were used on more breeds than almost anything I can think of-including alot of the Angus -But-I NEEDS THE MONEY-YES FRIENDS AND NEIGHBORS JUST SEND $19.95 to to the LONG DISTANCE PHONE LINE TO HEAVEN (managed by UB Shorthorns) AND I WILL DO MY BEST TO CHANGE THESE HARD CALVINGS O0

 

[shortybreeder]

I've seen 3 daughters down here in Australia, and they are all pretty handy. I have a video of one and pictures of all 3, PM me and I can email them to you because i'm tired of adjusting a bunch of pictures to fit the size limits. This particular farm used 5 straws and got 3 heifers, so they are what they are. He was used in mature cows and had no calving issues--if there had been problems they wouldn't have survived the birthing process.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Obviously the cow is at least half of the equation-the Aussie cattle have been bred for commercial useage for many years-I would have to assume that they are genetically alot easier calving than most of the Shorhorns up here  O0

 

[justintime]

Obviously the cow is at least half of the equation-the Aussie cattle have been bred for commercial useage for many years-I would have to assume that they are genetically alot easier calving than most of the Shorhorns up here  O0
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Well I am hearing the same thing as shortybreeder. I spoke with two more breeders in the last 24 hours that have had Fire Storm calves born in the past two weeks. So far, I have not heard of a single  calf that was assisted at birth. One guy said he now has 5 on the ground and they look really good. He said they are weighing in the low 90s at birth.( From research done in the past, a 90 lb calf in Canada is similar to an 80 lb calf born in Texas from the same genetics ) But that really doesn't mean much to most of you EPD experts. You seem to be convinced he will be a cow killer, yet those with actual experience with calves on the ground are not saying anything like this. I think I know who I am going to believe. I have asked everyone I have talked with, if they plan on using Fire Storm again this year. Everyone has said, based on the calves they have on the ground that they will definitely using him again.... but I guess that doesn't matter.  There will be a bunch more Fire Storm calves born in the next few weeks. So far, I have seen several of them and I have not seen a poor calf yet.
So I am now wondering, that after you all are done bashing Fire Storm, have you got any plans as to who you are going to bash next? The negativity presented by some of the regulars on this site is a bit mind boggling!