Holstein as a Recip?

[Cyfarmer]

Been thinking - I know scary
Has anyone ever used a Holstein cull cow as a recip?
Here is my thoughts - we have a lot of holstein cull cows available in dairy country for not much money.I can you put embryos in holsteins, and then maybe try to raise 2-3 calves off of one cow (due to volume of milk available) I have a neighbor that would let me put in embryos in his holsteins, as well as sell me a cull cow to raise them. I can hand feed to keep the cow in condition. I know of other neighbors that raise dairy calves in a group setting with a cull cow (some run as many as 3-4 calves on a cow) and they get along very well. A typical holstein calf when born weighs 100-120 pounds, so the nice thing is I would probalby not have to worry much about calving problems.
Just curious on opinions/thoughts - anyone ever done this? 
CyFarmer

 

[sizzler14]

you know i have pondered the exact sme thing for many years!!!!!!!!! never had the guts to try it. I was always afraid of the fact that cow would have shitty mothering entincts since dairy cows never raise calves and i wasnt sure if i wanted that headache. i am anxious to hear peoples opinions. we may have a gem of an idea

 

[BadgerFan]

be careful of Johne's disease in dairy cows.

 

[HF CHARS]

put 29 eggs in some for spring borns,,,will know more then

 

[kidsandkows]

I was thinking this same dang thing today at lunch! That is weird! Not sure if it is a positive or a negative, but like you said they have big ol calves so if the genetics are there  you could possibly have a monster. Although they would be more capable of getting it out than a beef cow. I wasnt really thinking of having several on one cow but that is a possibility too.

 

[sackshowcattle]

personally never tried it, but know a guy that said he tried it when I brought up the idea to him. He said he didn't know if it was cause of the blood feeding the calf from cow,  the milk of the cow, or the extra room, but said he had some high dollar simi embryos that the calves took on the dairy characteristics. I never understood how that would be since the embryo dna was set by a beef mating, but never have wanted to chance it since. The other thing to remember is if your registering, some breed associations won't allow calves to be registered if the recip was a dairy breed due to a few things it can really change on epds. birth weight and growth come to mind as factors that could change.

 

[frostback]

They are cull cows for a reason, and how often not getting re bred is the reason? Not great recip candidate then. How would you put multiple calves on them, put in multiply eggs? How many heifers would you loose to being a freemartin? Not great mothering instints in these cows either. Would you have the time to get them all up and nursed? Just a few thoughts to consider. I worked at a place that used virgin Holstein for recips and that worked OK, they then sold them to a local dairy, that would make more sense then cull cows.

 

[Till-Hill]

I wouldn't use cull cows. But virgin heifers are only bringing $.70-1.00 what I have been seeing. Alot cheaper than buying a beef heifer or cow. We run a beef bull on our low group milk cows. Got a bunch of them floating around we are making beef recip cows out of. Mothering ability isn't great on the holsteins. Calf will freeze to death on some cows if you don't help out. Udders will break down after 4-5 calvings....

Where ever you buy them, buy ones from a good home. We Johnes vaccinate everything and have been for 8-10 years and haven't had a clinic case in that long either. Some places still got some as do beef herds so be carefull.

 

[DL]

Been thinking - I know scary
Has anyone ever used a Holstein cull cow as a recip?
Here is my thoughts - we have a lot of holstein cull cows available in dairy country for not much money.I can you put embryos in holsteins, and then maybe try to raise 2-3 calves off of one cow (due to volume of milk available) I have a neighbor that would let me put in embryos in his holsteins, as well as sell me a cull cow to raise them. I can hand feed to keep the cow in condition. I know of other neighbors that raise dairy calves in a group setting with a cull cow (some run as many as 3-4 calves on a cow) and they get along very well. A typical holstein calf when born weighs 100-120 pounds, so the nice thing is I would probalby not have to worry much about calving problems.
Just curious on opinions/thoughts - anyone ever done this? 
CyFarmer

[size=10pt]Why would you put a diamond in a garbage can? [/size]

 

[mick rems]

ik know of a few dairy guys that put beef embryos in their dairy heifers to get a bit lighter calf. they feed them with the rest of the dairy calves and then sell them. theyve always had good success. and put some pretty good embryos in too. but never hav i heard someone putting them in crap cull cows. idk why. ud be wasting the embryo, the cow is getting culled for a reason, i wouldn't mess with that. jmo.

 

[KyMar Angus]

I have heard if it being done, but after the cow gives birth they bottle feed it so they can capitalize on milk production. I like the idea as long as the mothering thing that was brought up is addressed. I would like to know how you do if you give it a go.

 

[J2F]

I know a guy who quite milking but kept a few around to raise dairy feeders on.He will put 1  or 2 on with the natural calf. Sure beats bottle feeding. He seems to be having a lot of luck with this.

 

[vc]

Frostback, I think he met using the cow as a nurse cow after she calved, not putting several embryos in her but having several calves nurse off of her (at least I hope that is what he ment). The dairy guys I know, cull when the cows are burned up, won't breed or udders are just gone, I think you would be better off with heifers as well if you went that rout.

 

[Aussie]

I have tried it tested all cows before I bought them for Johnes but the Holsteins grew huge calves ( 115 lbs) compaired to same embryos in small Hereford x jersey cows ( 85 lbs ) the Holsteins calved a few days before the cross breds which lead to some very sleepless nights. Something else that is a must is to check for pesti virus that can wreck your program real quick.

 

[Cyfarmer]

We have a 3  - 200 cow dairies within 4 miles. Therefore I could be somewhat selective on the cull cow I would use. I would also have access to virgin heifers as recips, which may be a better idea anyway. The cull cow idea came from a neighbor who uses a good cow with only 3 quarters as a nurse cow, and raises 2-4 calves at a time for 2-3 months, then weans early and puts new calves on. One of the obvious concerns would be getting colostrum in them, but could be done because the dairy has to dump that milk anyway. As far as the management thing, I have 3 cows with 3 acres of pasture, so I have the time, as well as buildings to have a little more TLC for them if / when needed. We bought a good heifer this year for a 4-H project, and we were looking to have a few calves out of her to help pay for her. We don't have access to any additional pasture because everything arround has been torn up for corn. Just trying to think outside the box, and use the resourses I have available.
CyFarmer

 

[frostback]

Frostback, I think he met using the cow as a nurse cow after she calved, not putting several embryos in her but having several calves nurse off of her (at least I hope that is what he ment). The dairy guys I know, cull when the cows are burned up, won't breed or udders are just gone, I think you would be better off with heifers as well if you went that rout.

Unless the cow that gave birth died or had no milk why would she not raise the calf?  Seems like a lot of work to make one cow nurse all the calves that had to be born by another cow. Unless they were dairy cows and the cows went into milk production.

 

[vc]

Or you have a bunch cows out of clubby bulls that do not milk.

 

[Cyfarmer]

Frostback, I think he met using the cow as a nurse cow after she calved, not putting several embryos in her but having several calves nurse off of her (at least I hope that is what he ment). The dairy guys I know, cull when the cows are burned up, won't breed or udders are just gone, I think you would be better off with heifers as well if you went that rout.

Unless the cow that gave birth died or had no milk why would she not raise the calf?  Seems like a lot of work to make one cow nurse all the calves that had to be born by another cow. Unless they were dairy cows and the cows went into milk production.

Yes - I am talking about using Dairy cows that would go back to the dairy herd for milk production to sell.

 

[J2F]

We have a 3  - 200 cow dairies within 4 miles. Therefore I could be somewhat selective on the cull cow I would use. I would also have access to virgin heifers as recips, which may be a better idea anyway. The cull cow idea came from a neighbor who uses a good cow with only 3 quarters as a nurse cow, and raises 2-4 calves at a time for 2-3 months, then weans early and puts new calves on. One of the obvious concerns would be getting colostrum in them, but could be done because the dairy has to dump that milk anyway. As far as the management thing, I have 3 cows with 3 acres of pasture, so I have the time, as well as buildings to have a little more TLC for them if / when needed. We bought a good heifer this year for a 4-H project, and we were looking to have a few calves out of her to help pay for her. We don't have access to any additional pasture because everything arround has been torn up for corn. Just trying to think outside the box, and use the resourses I have available.
CyFarmer

You might want to look at a jersey, a Holstein will eat you out of house and home if you only have 3 acres of grass to feed her. LOL

 

[Lucky_P]

Using Holsteins - either culls or virgin heifers - was done with some regularity during the early days of ET work in my neck of the woods.  I'm still convinced that that's where a lot of our purebred beef herds got their Johne's problem.  Somebody(ies) didn't think far enough ahead.

Incidence of JD is pretty high in many dairy herds, and even if the cow/heifer is not yet clinical, she can certainly pass the causative organism to her calf - we know that, in addition to fecal shedding, the organism is also passed in milk/colostrum - and 25%(or more) of calves born to infected cows may become infected in the uterus prior to birth.

Unfortunately the diagnostic tests we have for Johne's, while very specific, still fall far short of being reliable for detecting those animals that are infected, but nowhere close to exhibiting clinical disease yet.  A positive serologic test result is reliable; a negative - good, but I wouldn't bet the farm...