hormones in beef

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RyanChandler

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The fact of the matter is that you, nor anyone else, know the long term effects of incremental SYNTHETIC hormone exposure.  There is only one way to avoid this POTENTIAL risk-  and that is to eat food that has been produced w/o exposure to synthetics. 
 

Barry Farms

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-XBAR- said:
The fact of the matter is that you, nor anyone else, know the long term effects of incremental SYNTHETIC hormone exposure.  There is only one way to avoid this POTENTIAL risk-  and that is to eat food that has been produced w/o exposure to synthetics.

You remind me of Sheldon Cooper on the Big Bang Theory
 

knabe

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-XBAR- said:
One could only dream of having his capacity.

one could actually use some of their existing capacity.

just being male compared to female is a bigger cause of death.

what do you propose we do to test the effect of any synthetic chemical versus the exact duplicate that is synthesized in vivo?

did you take sir soy's spot?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_causes_of_death_by_rate

http://web.archive.org/web/20080917230014/http://www.beefmyths.org/


here's a website you could have posted.


http://foodforbreastcancer.com/news/estrogen-in-chicken-and-beef-may-be-contributing-to-hormone-dependent-cancers
 

knabe

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You could have posted this as well

Myths about senate bill 510

http://www.naturalnews.com/030587_Senate_Bill_510_Food_Safety.html

Snopes has debumked it, as well as a companion house bill, but i have some doubts.

More info

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FDA_Food_Safety_Modernization_Act


Seems they could have just figured out about the big violators like tomatoes instead of making a sweeping law change. Instead, we need 1000 or more govenment employees, a reporting and compliance infrastructure, a beta testing run, exemption cutoffs for sizes of farms based on gross sales instead of something that focuse on the problems.  Typical government overreaction due to problems of a small section of the industry. It would seem more people die from food poisoning due to themselves than synthetic hormones.
 

BTDT

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Very nice student investigation.  Glad to see our youth can actually think for themselves!

x-bar - If I added up every "risk" of cancer and death in my lifestyle, I should have been dead years ago. Probably should not have even been born. 

I had a discussion with a lady about how ag practices was killing America.  Tried to use logic on her but that didn't work. Tried to reason with her and that didn't work. Even tried comparison and that didn't work. 
I patiently listened as she told me about how GMO wheat was killing Americans guts. I politely listened to her argument that GMO foods are changing human DNA. I listened as she said hormones in milk were creating teen mothers (I am not joking). And I gritted my teeth as she accused farmers of every single environmental change the last 100 years.

I then laughed, out loud I might add,  as she walked away as she took a drink of a diet pepsi and munching on a snickers bar.

 

RyanChandler

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BTDT said:
x-bar - If I added up every "risk" of cancer and death in my lifestyle, I should have been dead years ago. Probably should not have even been born. 

Tried to use logic on her but that didn't work.

If this is the logic you used, I can understand why it was difficult for you to convince. 


knabe said:
what do you propose we do to test the effect of any synthetic chemical versus the exact duplicate that is synthesized in vivo?

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/2013/04/10/natural-vs-synthetic-chemicals-is-a-gray-matter/

"The chemical structure of a synthesized compound is exactly the same as the natural compound it is supposed to supplement, such as ascorbic acid, which is the primary form of Vitamin C. It will taste the same, smell the same, and it will function the same in your body. This is true for most cases, however sometimes there are additional and unintended products. For example, naturally derived Vitamin E is called d-α-tocopherol and synthetic Vitamin E is called dl-α -tocopherol. The difference between the two is that the “dl” refers to a mixture of both d- and l-α-tocopherol. There is no evidence that the “l” version is harmful to the human body, but it is about 1.4times less effective than naturally derived Vitamin E.

Inactive ingredients may differ between natural and synthetic products, such as additives, fillers, by-products, and additional naturally extracted chemicals (these may be active but are not the target compound) in naturally derived products. These are important to consider in any product, whether it is naturally derived or synthetic. For example, a number of synthetic food colorings have been banned due to carcinogenicity."

This article was written by Dorea Reeser, an environmental chemist.  These are the professionals we need to be seeking information from- not Jimmy Wayne down at the local Co op.  Now j dubya will try to convince ya that any concern about the way in which our food in produced is just propaganda started by those tree huggin types and that w/o the use of synthetics we wouldn't be able to "feed the world." But what the consumer is becoming more and more aware of is that ol jw is only looking out for numero uno and he could give two ****s less about the heath care of his fellow countrymen much less the starving kids in Ethiopia. 
 

knabe

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using logic will never work with people who rely on emotion and anecdotal evidence.

what about the cumulative effects of natural arsenic and cyanide in many types of food?

what about the cumulative effects of natural toxic compounds?

it is not the scientific method to constantly seek out information/people/studies that confirms one's position.

i'm thinking you look out for numero uno as well.  another argument detoxified.

risk assessment is a valid argument to balance action.


 

FriedgesCharolais

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BTDT said:
Very nice student investigation.  Glad to see our youth can actually think for themselves!

x-bar - If I added up every "risk" of cancer and death in my lifestyle, I should have been dead years ago. Probably should not have even been born. 

I had a discussion with a lady about how ag practices was killing America.  Tried to use logic on her but that didn't work. Tried to reason with her and that didn't work. Even tried comparison and that didn't work. 
I patiently listened as she told me about how GMO wheat was killing Americans guts. I politely listened to her argument that GMO foods are changing human DNA. I listened as she said hormones in milk were creating teen mothers (I am not joking). And I gritted my teeth as she accused farmers of every single environmental change the last 100 years.

I then laughed, out loud I might add,  as she walked away as she took a drink of a diet pepsi and munching on a snickers bar.

I hope you told her that there is no genetically modified wheat in the market place
 

knabe

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Did you tell her about calcium loss from drinking soft drinks, the artificial sweetners, the addiction to sweets, the synthetic coloring, the waste of aluminum and trucking infrastructure. The whole soft drink infrastructure should be eliminated using their logic. Not to mention the health care benefits of eliminating sweets and helping with all those problems as well.  ::) ::)
 

BTDT

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Hidden Creek - I did, but of course she didn't believe me.
knabe - Of course I told her of the artificial sweeteners, artificial coloring and flavoring, but again, that didn't seem to concern her.

x-bar - my point being that everything has the ability to kill or shorten the life of a human. Industry and technology is moving way to fast for researchers to keep up. Does that mean we do not move forward or worse, keep possibly life changing products out of the hands of the public so they can be "protected" from themselves?? 

I would like to think I can make decisions for myself and do not need a gov't council, gov't employee or a lobby group to save me from myself.

 

RyanChandler

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What type of formal education or background do you have that would allow you to make an informed opinion regarding synthetic hormone exposure? I have none but that's why I look to those who do. 

The root of the issue likely lies in our differing opinions of what exactly 'moving forward' means.
 

chambero

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-XBAR- said:
What type of formal education or background do you have that would allow you to make an informed opinion regarding synthetic hormone exposure? I have none but that's why I look to those who do. 

The root of the issue likely lies in our differing opinions of what exactly 'moving forward' means.

I do have formal education in this field, and although I don't directly deal with food related issues, I deal with human and ecological risk assessment on a daily basis.

Frankly, this issue is popular in the public because its something that suburban house frau's with too much time and money on their hands can sink their teeth into because it's something they think that threatens their kids. Restaurants and high end food chains have figured out its something they can use to get that extra money from the house frau's.  It's not something that many professional researchers in universities, FDA, or elsewhere are putting that much money into studying relative to other problems.

The reality is many, many products that we use in the world contain chemicals that mimic synthetic hormones.  For example, there is a very serious decline in amphibian populations in this many developed countries and there is strong evidence it is due to synthetic chemicals that mimic estrogen.  Serious researchers are much more concerned about chemicals (herbicides, pesticides, etc) that are applied directly too crops and enter the environment through runoff and/or are directly ingested by humans than they are hormones in meat products.  Plastic products are thought to be one of the biggest contributors to the presence of trace levels of these types of substances in the environment.  That wealthy house frau that shops at Whole Foods in her yoga pants likely gets much higher doses of synthetic chemicals in her body from drinking her "purified" water that has been sitting in a plastic bottle for months + eating her soy whatever than she does by eating steak/chicken/pork and getting a glass of water out of the sink.  Not to mention the makeup she cakes on her face everyday.  Chemicals are everywhere.

Despite all of this, human lifespans are rapidly increasing worldwide BECAUSE our food and water supplies SAFE AND CHEAP.  Engineers and farmers are more responsible for the dramatic increase in lifespan than doctors are.  Frankly, everything else is background noise.  Everyone is going to die of something.  Frankly, I'll trade obesity and cancer in my 70s-80s for plague, cholera, etc. in my 30s and 40s any time.  In 50 years we will probably have recognized that we have more problems caused by living too long than vice versa.  Dying about the time you've lost your usefulness has its benefits.  Quality over quantity applies to more than just cows.
 

knabe

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-XBAR- said:
What type of formal education or background do you have that would allow you to make an informed opinion

sounds like someone hates the first amendment.  sounds like a good "moving forward" supporter. perhaps before anyone can talk about any topic, they obtain a license from the "move  forward" crowd.

When one makes a Revolution, one cannot mark time; one must always go forward - or go back. He who now talks about the 'freedom of the press' goes backward, and halts our headlong course towards Socialism.
 

RyanChandler

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The FDA is just as susceptible to bribery as any other govt agency.  The fact that so many think the FDA is comprised of the infallible is alarming.  Year after year chemicals are put on the ban list because of their known cancer causing carcinogens: chemicals that the FDA had previously approved and only because of the efforts of independent researchers was enough evidence brought forth to take the product off the market.

Undoubtedly, the capitalist pursuit of self interest temps farmers to engage in practices that, if it weren't for the additional monetary reward associated w/ higher yields, they wouldn't even consider!
 

knabe

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-XBAR- said:
Undoubtedly, the capitalist pursuit of self interest temps farmers to engage in practices that, if it weren't for the additional monetary reward associated w/ higher yields, they wouldn't even consider!


why aren't you using a lower yielding bulls?  your logic inconsistency is only exceeded by your lust for tyranny.


undoubtedly, the communist pursuit of self interest of the oligarchs can not be resisted if it weren't for the additional monetary reward associated with central control. your pursuit of capitalism while espousing communism for everyone else is no doubt troubling. your continued self interest reveals your hypocrisy. it is difficult to take you seriously.  why do you need self interest in the real estate world? it only puts housing out of reach of those who can not afford it.
 

RyanChandler

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knabe said:
-XBAR- said:
Undoubtedly, the capitalist pursuit of self interest temps farmers to engage in practices that, if it weren't for the additional monetary reward associated w/ higher yields, they wouldn't even consider!


why aren't you using a lower yielding bulls?  your logic inconsistency is only exceeded by your lust for tyranny.

Your attempt to compare a bull's natural ability to gain w/ higher yields resulting from synthetic hormone implants is incoherent. 
 

knabe

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-XBAR- said:
Your attempt to compare a bull's natural ability to gain w/ higher yields resulting from synthetic hormone implants is incoherent.

not really.  it was a comparison of incentives. the more incentive you take out of the system, the less improvement one has.

how does one calculate how to maximize tax revenues to the government?

our current methodology appears to be find or create a need, borrow money, increasing costs, creating a ponzi scheme, of which only the government is allowed to legally operate.

what should the ratio be to maximize profit to the individual and revenues to the government?

i take it the laffer curve, in your opinion, is not useful.
 
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