Horse exports......

[showsteerdlux]

Hey garybob, just wonderin how I was being racist in what I said. I am the last person in the world that would wote on color alone. However, in a heartbeat I will refuse to support someone for president that is apart of a religion that is so radical. Sorry can't see how thats racist and worthy of losing karma. If you will listen, more than once Obama has said that he is a muslim.

 

[knabe]

I dont judge people by there religon.

i do.  i discriminate against human sacrifice cultures, head hunters, head shrinkers, and selective discriminators.  when muslims let jews return to mecca and medina (look it up), which will NEVER happen, just ask them, and when onnly ONE country is asked to give up land gained in war, which Mohammed gained as he started as one person, which will NEVER happen either, i'll think that the world has made some progress.  since Islam is the government, i will discriminate against it proudly.  I have read 3/4 of the koran in college when i was naive and was outraged at the laws discriminating against non-muslims which are still practiced the world over.  it is not a minority.  polls show that ONLY 10% of the world's muslims are fanatics.  what part of 100,000,000 of 1 billion doesn't anyone understand?  The literature coming out of saudi support "religious" schools in america is outrageous.  amazing the government even allows it and gives them tax exempt status, but let a christian minister in a pulpit say one thing about a candidate, he gets a call from uncle sam.

the one question i would ask obamma is "what is an apostate (one who gives up islam), and if he thought that some muslims would consider him an apostate and would, therefore want him killed.  his church is essentially a black version of La Raza, and therefore, i will discriminate against him, not because he's black, or muslim.  "change", or "choice" for that matter,don't mean anything to liberals except the elimination of difference of opinion with them.

 

[itk]

I took an understanding Islam class in college and as part of the class we had to read the Koran. Needless to say there were many parts that were disturbing to non-Muslims. Additionally, I see where alot of issues that we have with them could have been avoided by simply trying to understand alittle bit about their culture. On almost a daily basis I drive by Fred Phelps and his picketers and have to see the message of hate that they are trying to spread. So I sympathize with the Muslim population who doesn't want to be thrown in with the extremists just like myself as a Christian would not like to be put in the same category as Mr. Phelps. IMO religion like everything else is best in moderation.

 

[knabe]

as a percentage of the population, phelps is a decided minority of the population compared to the millions of muslims who hate the west, and only increasing.  i have yet to see a concerted effort by organized muslims groups to "understand" the west.  CAIR is not doing a good job.  the lack of separation of church and state and the movement to codify this MORE by more than 90% of muslim nations is disturbing.  we are the most understanding of any culture in world history, so much so, we will do almost anything to be viewed so, to our detriment.  i want to see a christian church in mecca and medina,  before i start to give another bugs bunny inch of culture and as a gesture of muslims understanding the west.  a christian church was opened in Iraq.  this is a good start.  it is still a crime punishable by death to be an apostate, and codified in iraq's and afghanistans constitution.  apostasy is denunciation of islam, of which barack obama potentially is.  if there is to be pluralism, why is the US always under more pressure to be more pluralistic to a fault?  pluralism is the disappearance of america and simply conversion.  there is very little in the constitution that is compatible with islam.  i would like to see carbon dating of the ka'ba, which was simply adopted by mohammed and incorporated into islam as a technique he often used to gain followers.  just as mohammed never went to israel, abraham never went to mecca (he probably never went further south than the saini desert and couldn't have rebuilt the ka'bah, which muslims claim adam built. Mohammed was notoriously know to add parts to islam when he heard snippets of christianity and claimed their prophets as prophets of islam.  curiously, understanding islam rarely considers alternative sources of information that are not from muslim sources, and even muslim sources are rarely examined for accuracy against historical evidence.

also of note, the NY times hates americans as well as they try and portray returning soliers as murdering maniacs.  it is easily proven they commit crime at the same rate as the general population, but will say nothing about the crime rate of illegals versus the general population.  in federal prisons, roughly 30% of inmates are illegals, yet they make up, at most, 10% of the population.  the facts continue to get in the way of utopia.

 

[itk]

History  is full of extreme Christian groups that 99 percent of us would not want to be associated with. Jonestown, Waco and the people who blow up abortion clinics all in the name of God are a few of the Christian people I can think of off the top of my head. I'm sure there are more we could all think of. We would all be upset if the world view of Christianity was that we all thought like David Corish. Where is the discussion that one of the presidential canidates belives that Jesus came back and hung out with the indians. This goes against the Bible as well. Throughout history religon and violence go hand in hand yet almost all religons talk about peace and understanding.

 

[garybob]

History  is full of extreme Christian groups that 99 percent of us would not want to be associated with. Jonestown, Waco and the people who blow up abortion clinics all in the name of God are a few of the Christian people I can think of off the top of my head. I'm sure there are more we could all think of. We would all be upset if the world view of Christianity was that we all thought like David Corish. Where is the discussion that one of the presidential canidates belives that Jesus came back and hung out with the indians. This goes against the Bible as well. Throughout history religon and violence go hand in hand yet almost all religons talk about peace and understanding.

You guys ever heard of "The Mountain Meadows Massacre"?

GB

 

[knabe]

History  is full of extreme Christian groups that 99 percent of us would not want to be associated with. Jonestown, Waco and the people who blow up abortion clinics all in the name of God are a few of the Christian people I can think of off the top of my head. I'm sure there are more we could all think of. We would all be upset if the world view of Christianity was that we all thought like David Corish. Where is the discussion that one of the presidential canidates belives that Jesus came back and hung out with the indians. This goes against the Bible as well. Throughout history religon and violence go hand in hand yet almost all religons talk about peace and understanding.

the elections are about popularity contests with the media, and usually end up with the media overpumping the candidate they think will fail against the democrat candidate.

the elections are not about issues, if they were, they would talk about them.

religion does not need to be mixed up with governance.  this is why i'm against islam in general, as it's mandated.

it seems a lot of these extreme groups are more about sex, (power) than a religion.  a couple of the one's you mentioned were too.  sodomy in some  islam circles is not viewed as homosexuality if the boy is under a certain age, typically between the ages of 8-14.  bedouin arabs do not follow this practice.

mountain meadows, GB, i read about that last year.  uh,  scary, especially the zeal to eliminate witnesses.  i'm assuming you know about this as some came from arkansas?  i always thought the one guy pictured in the book looked like rasputen, another beguiling (deceivning) figure in history

 

[garybob]

History  is full of extreme Christian groups that 99 percent of us would not want to be associated with. Jonestown, Waco and the people who blow up abortion clinics all in the name of God are a few of the Christian people I can think of off the top of my head. I'm sure there are more we could all think of. We would all be upset if the world view of Christianity was that we all thought like David Corish. Where is the discussion that one of the presidential canidates belives that Jesus came back and hung out with the indians. This goes against the Bible as well. Throughout history religon and violence go hand in hand yet almost all religons talk about peace and understanding.

the elections are about popularity contests with the media, and usually end up with the media overpumping the candidate they think will fail against the democrat candidate.

the elections are not about issues, if they were, they would talk about them.

religion does not need to be mixed up with governance.  this is why i'm against islam in general, as it's mandated.

it seems a lot of these extreme groups are more about sex, (power) than a religion.  a couple of the one's you mentioned were too.  sodomy in some  islam circles is not viewed as homosexuality if the boy is under a certain age, typically between the ages of 8-14.  bedouin arabs do not follow this practice.

mountain meadows, GB, i read about that last year.   uh,  scary, especially the zeal to eliminate witnesses.  i'm assuming you know about this as some came from arkansas?  i always thought the one guy pictured in the book looked like rasputen, another beguiling (deceivning) figure in history

Knabe, the entire party, with the exception of a Family who joined them later, were from Arkansas.
GB

 

[knabe]

anyone notice this?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080116/sc_afp/australiaenvironmentanimals_080116080330

finally, an environmentalist with some sense.

of course, in america, there were small horses, and whose to say they wouldn't have evolved into larger animals.

only in america do we not understand not drilling for oil increases the price and not allowing horse slaughter increases horses on federal lands.  dopes.

 

[renegade]

I dont know how i want to word this because i know what i was gonna say but i didnt want anyone getting upset, it was a little too blunt.  So here it goes.  I have heard people say "why dont we just drop a nuke on the middle east?" Why? obviosly not reasonable and that would just cause a horrible chain reaction.  Why do they ask that? They think it is an easy fix to the war.  So why dont we just kill all of the brumbies in australia? First of all if you eradicate ALL of the horses in that park it WILL have an impact on the enviroment.  To kill all of those horses is unneccessary. Round up, selling and gelding/spaying of most of the horses would be better ( i think but i guess i dont know eveything about it).  It works in the u.s. except over the last 10 years BLM has made it about 10X more difficult to find when they have an adoption and to get a horse. Now they have online auctions and silent bidding which has actually discouraged participation.  Turn out was much better when they did the lottery system at $125 a horse but this wasnt too bad becuase they preffered to send the horses to slaughter when the protection of the animals was lifted and they could do that.  I dont think that the park is going to have an easy time of eradicating all of those animals because for some odd reason people have a problem with a large part of their history being slaughtered, especially when there are alternitives.

 

[knabe]

there's plenty of horses in australia without brumbies, just as in america.  we don't need them there.  i'd rather have native sheep, even with their health problems and interraction with domesticated species and have federal dollars spent on a federal species rather than the horses.  go in, get the movie making horses out and be done with it.  the flora hasn't had time to adapt to their powder creating hooves.  in one sense it has, as native plants and distributions are disappearing.  the metaphor i am using which i didnt' get to which you did, is that the government in the US wants it both ways.  they want the public to pay for the nonsense to keep them wild, pay to have an auction or whatever to distribute them, then when the horse is past a rideable age, we can't send them to slaughter.  so i say let them send them to slaughter rather than draw out the process.  that way we can get rid of a useless infrastructure at the federal level that has no origination in the constitution for the feds to be bothering with.  the federal government specializes in making it difficult for anything when they get involved because they have to make things more equal.  i detest them more and more each day.  i say if people want to preserve their history, preserve it, but not at the expense large fauna.  same with the large kangaroos.  they lost their predators and are taking over, but the feelgooders won't let a thinning there either because they can't eat one of their national symbols.  it's difficult to understand displacing populations.  in the carizza plains here in california, the nature conservancy got rid of some cattle.  trouble was, when the did that, native fox, burrowing owls and a host of other species declined dramatically.  we got rid of the split hoove herbivores too recently in the US ie, the bison, for the environment to adapt.  we also introduced "improved" species in the form of noxious weeds and annual grasses, which only served to increase runoff, reduce feed, reduce diversity.  cattle now serve the purpose that herds of elk, bison and other large animals served to rid the environment of high carbon to nitrogen buildup which doesn't get reduced well without disturbance.  horses overdisturb, they came from rocky steppes where their feet woudln't damage fragile topsoil.  we have selected against their rapid hoof growth and replaced it with mandated shoeing as we have taken out the foot of the horse.  this was started by not having enough horses around that could withstand cobblestone travel and wah la, we needed better shoes.  we got horses that were prettier with small feet that used less iron.  we are rapidly going that way again with cutting horses.  human just will not correct his mistakes or make his population static.  we must fill the petri dish and reduce diversity.  pretty soon we will have to eat our own crap and bodies to survive, ie soylent green.  it would seem to me that one could take 90% of the brumbies and wild horses off the table and sterilize a good percentage of the rest and have a stable population so 10 people could go take pictures and put them in a calender once a year and make sure their numbers could be seen beneath their mane so we could all swoon how the lion is laying down with the lamb.  or we could do just what comes "natural", knock down the fence and let them populate even more and let "nature" take over.  the alternatives are less of them, let there be diversity.  let both catch sterilize and release as well as catch and euthanize, as both systems have worked in cats and both solutions are basically useless, just ask the native birds and other predators a cat's size like kit foxes.  oh but they are so cute.

 

[renegade]

The thing is that the US is a country of, for and by the people and if enough people push they get what they want. I still disagree with slaughtering the horses because there are other alternatives but also disagree with the way BLM goes about those other options... it makes it impossible to get things done. On the cutting horses i know exactly what you mean but i have had this mustang gelding for about 14 years and he has had his feet trimmed three times and when they do get trimmed they are SUPER hard (and he even has white feet).

 

[knabe]

i just love how lack of choice or lack of it, always comes into the equation.

this country was founded to protect the minority from the majority.  that's why it can last only so long, because the line keeps moving.  when you don't give the minority choice, they form their own country.  repeat. 

what are the alternatives to slaughter? 
sterilization and 20 years of feeding and damaging the environment?

should it be legal for one to own a horse if they don't sign a document saying they will feed it until it dies of natural causes, even if arthritic, ring bone, laminitis and other chronic ailments, diseases.  and you get fined for violation?  just like the ag survey sensus communist state run economy plan.  funny how democrats are always pushing democracy, rather than holding the line on being a republic, yes, bush is a democrat.  this is tyranny of the majority.  doesn't anyone get it?  obviously not, because they keep voting the public coffers be filled and dispensed with more and more.  bye bye country.  I guess if enough democrats vote for communism, we should just do it?  great.

should it be legal for anyone to own animals?

keep moving the line and it will be gone.

30,000 more horses went to mexico this time than last year.  next, the government is trying to make this illegal as well.

they are going to dry up this industry in a few short years because of anthropomorphic feelings in horse versus cows.  i don't see PETA in their PALACIAL palaces spending too much money on feeding horses. 

This closing of choice is becoming more prevalent under the guise of nice.

keep it coming, pretty soon,the only job americans will have is spending the equity out of their families assets while any incentive left for starting a business are gone.

yeah, i just love it, if enough people push.  seems to me that's what liberals hated about grade school and the whole everybody gets a trophy mentality.  daddy is gone on the farm.  there is no diversity in thought anymore.  it's almost gone.

 

[Doc]

Knabe, Talking about governmental control, what about this I heard a little bit about in CA on the power companies controlling t-stats in your house ? It didn't pass but that is scarey!!!!!!

 

[knabe]

already posted something on that here.  it will come up again and again and again till they vote for it.  it's why i think legislatures should meet for far shorter periods of time.  it's not the power companies controlling the thermostat,it's the governor appointed power grid for CA controller.  can't remember what his title is.  the market can't possibly affect on'es decision to turn down the thermostat, we need the government.  they know what's right.

 

[knabe]

see what happens when "democracy" (populism) takes over?

http://doubleplusundead.mee.nu/the_fifteen_million_dollar_burger

might makes right.

we just need to push a little harder.  nuance.

 

[knabe]

we just can't kill enough horses.  government involvement is not immune from idealism.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080229/D8V3STS00.html

In October, investigators found about 70 Arabian horses, including one already dead, on about 75 acres in Jefferson County, Ga., sheriff's deputy Jimmy Kitchens said.

that's a reasonable stocking rate with no hay.

someone trying to do a good thing isn't reason enough to attempt this.  it simply can't be done.  kill the horses.  the government in nevada can't seem to figure out that castration is a great method of birth control.  of course it's not "natural" so we can't do it.  the libs who claim we are animals too, won't allow us to act like animals and be the predator we are and maintain a balance.

horses little round feet evolved on rocky steppes.  we selected them to stop growing so much hoof and put them in areas like the desert where the native flora can't compete, let alone with the number of horses.  it's amazing the enviros simply don't demand the horses are removed.

i have a new neighbor with at least 17 pony type jumping horses, and about 10 other full size horses on 5 acres.  it's a total disaster.  they also moved in two single wide trailers, unpermited of course.  the runoff from this place is amazing.  yes, it's uphill from me.

 

[Dusty]

There is nothing that infuriates me more than people who don't take care of their animals.  You see this more with the horse people than any other livestock species.  Example:
Family moves out to country from city.  Daughter wants some ponies because they're just so adorable.  Like knabe said they overstock them on too little grass because most of them are soo stupid when it comes to livestock they forget that a horse needs to eat..A LOT.....So after about a year when the horses are emaciated, the daughter doesn't care about the horses any more, so now they have 10 thin worthless horses that they can't even get rid of because it's against the law to slaughter "Seabiscuit." So these animals simply suffer until they die.  When I drive down the road and see things like that I would like to pull into the place and beat the living crap out of the horses owners for being so stupid and not caring about the welfare of their animals.  I would rather they called me and said "Dusty come load up my horses and take them somewhere and shoot them."  I would be glad to do it.  You'd be amazed how quick the coyotes will clean the up too...  It is not cruel to simply shoot an animal.  If you own the animal you have the right to do it.  It is cruel to let an animal stand around and suffer until it dies.  We better hope they don't make a movie about some little girl and her show steer.  They next thing ya know we won't be able to cut their heads off either...

 

[knabe]

charlottes web?

 

[Dusty]

Pigs aren't quite as "cute" in real life as calves and horses...People don't fall in love with them as easy..