Horse exports......

[knabe]

i know, dusty, just the format.  nowadays, the steers go to the zoo.  the movie is already there for the taking.

 

[knabe]

here's an unbiased story about horse slaughter.

http://wjz.com/local/horse.slaughter.congress.2.669612.html

Jo Deibel is actively involved in horse rescue. She has seen first-hand what she calls a horrifying process.  Horses are lined up, forced into a narrow pen and electrocuted numerous times to render them unconscious.

sounds like going to school in california.

The horses are strung up by their legs and their throats are slashed.
i've seen movies from hollywood that would make this sound like a picnic.

it's amazing these horse rescue people aren't strung up for ruining the environment and wasting water growing alfalfa when that water could be used to help the smelt in the delta.

this is the part i mean about wanting it both ways on almost every issue.  so far, i haven't seen an exception, though still looking.

 

[Dusty]

here's an unbiased story about horse slaughter.

http://wjz.com/local/horse.slaughter.congress.2.669612.html

Jo Deibel is actively involved in horse rescue. She has seen first-hand what she calls a horrifying process.  Horses are lined up, forced into a narrow pen and electrocuted numerous times to render them unconscious.

sounds like going to school in california.

The horses are strung up by their legs and their throats are slashed.
i've seen movies from hollywood that would make this sound like a picnic.

it's amazing these horse rescue people aren't strung up for ruining the environment and wasting water growing alfalfa when that water could be used to help the smelt in the delta.

this is the part i mean about wanting it both ways on almost every issue.  so far, i haven't seen an exception, though still looking.

Electrocuted until unconscious and then their throats slit is how hogs are slaughtered.  I've never had horse meat so I won't comment about eating them.  I would imagine it would take a lot of barbecue sauce, just guessing.


I'm asking the horse rescue people out there to explain to me a humane and practical way to "deal with" horses that are not needed or wanted.  I'm all ears.

 

[knabe]

i'm suprised the government hasn't heard of castration for horses on federal land.  not sure why all mares that can be bred, need to be bred.  sounds eeriliy similar to just about every government solution.

 

[daydreamingacres]

I love my horses just as I love my brood cows ( 2 of them) but I really don't see horses as  different from any other type of livestock. Just because we put saddles on them and brush them doesn't mean they have any more "rights" then other livestock. I think I would rather be shocked into unconsciousness and then hung up a bled then to live in filth with no food or water and suffer. There are only so many places to bury a horse in this world and only so many rescue groups to "save them". Around here hay prices are through the roof, grain prices are high and people are having trouble taking care of a family never mind a "hay burner" I have 10 horses but I think that I would rather send them to a 5 minute death then watch them suffer for weeks or years if I am unable to keep them. And look at show heifers they are used to being brushed and washed and blown out and pampered just as much a show horse is....under fans and in coolers during the summer when some people don't even have a place to go and can die from heat exhaustion (I'm not knocking on anyone for putting heifers/steers in coolers). In some  parts of the world people eat dogs and cats too......what is wrong with that? It is all the circle of life and too many people now a days (I'm only 21) take what they use everday for granted (as they don't know how many things they use involve animal by products). You even talk about eating your own cows and people get appalled. "oh how can you kill them that is so horrible!! blah. blah, blah"  My response is ......."hey lady nice leather shoes".. that usually shuts them up! Sorry for my ranting!

 

[Dusty]

I love my horses just as I love my brood cows ( 2 of them) but I really don't see horses as  different from any other type of livestock. Just because we put saddles on them and brush them doesn't mean they have any more "rights" then other livestock. I think I would rather be shocked into unconsciousness and then hung up a bled then to live in filth with no food or water and suffer. There are only so many places to bury a horse in this world and only so many rescue groups to "save them". Around here hay prices are through the roof, grain prices are high and people are having trouble taking care of a family never mind a "hay burner" I have 10 horses but I think that I would rather send them to a 5 minute death then watch them suffer for weeks or years if I am unable to keep them. And look at show heifers they are used to being brushed and washed and blown out and pampered just as much a show horse is....under fans and in coolers during the summer when some people don't even have a place to go and can die from heat exhaustion (I'm not knocking on anyone for putting heifers/steers in coolers). In some  parts of the world people eat dogs and cats too......what is wrong with that? It is all the circle of life and too many people now a days (I'm only 21) take what they use everday for granted (as they don't know how many things they use involve animal by products). You even talk about eating your own cows and people get appalled. "oh how can you kill them that is so horrible!! blah. blah, blah"  My response is ......."hey lady nice leather shoes".. that usually shuts them up! Sorry for my ranting!

You hit the nail on the head.  Horses are still animals.  To each their own if they want to own a horse, but when a person wants to get rid of that horse there needs to be a market for them or else they will just starve.  I see it all the time.  The most compassionate person in a lot of horses' lives is the the person that gives them the shot of lead.  Kids get attached to their 4-H calves just like kids and people get attached to horses.  But, the kid learns from the beginning that the calf is going to die.  It's a good lesson to learn.  Nothing lives forever in this world.  Whether it's a dog, calf, horse or person.  It's not easy, but it's a fact of life.
Personally I think it's irresponsible in a world with people dying of starvation that a country of affluence like America can make it illegal to slaughter certain animals because of they are considered "special".  They are still animals.

 

[knabe]

anyone call their senators yet?  i did.

 

[SWMO]

One of my customers that was raised in Mexico says that horse meat is really good.  Has a sweet taste to it and no fat.  (Just telling you what someone has told me that has actually eaten horse meat)  I couldn't tell you from personal experience

I have read that the Apaches preferred mules to horses.

 

[knabe]

i'm thinking this is a cultural discrimination issue which the left always proclaims they are always so senstitive about.  another instance of wanting it both ways.  it's just that they won't admit it.

 

[renegade]

I know when i say what im gonna say that im gonna get some flack for it but i have to stand up for what i believe.  The end of horse slaughter in america has hurt the economy for horses but lets be realistic hay and gas prices have hurt it more.  If people could afford to feed their animals and haul them to competitions then they really wouldnt be selling them and the market wouldnt be flooded. Right or am i just biased (its possible)?  Also, in my opinion, horses are diffrent than other livestock. They have hightened flight reflexes, more sensitive and when crowded together in a trailer made for market animals - mares, stallions, geldings and foals alike - they trample eachother, bite, kick, completely freak.

I wouldnt want horses electrocuted - that is a horrible death. A captive bolt gun isnt the answer either - operators typically arent able to hit the spot a flayling horse and it doesnt work on most.  Humane?  A shot to the head by a sharp shooter is humane, if they have to be put down.

Actually there has been sterilization on mustangs.

 

[shortyjock89]

Renegade, I understand that you want humane treatment for horses, I do too.  I kind of have to disagree with you when you say that gas prices are to blame.  Not all horses out there are show horses..I might be wrong here, but I also think that you're anthropomorpizing these horses, kind of ascribing to them human attributes.  Horses are flighty, yes, but they can be handled in a slaughter facility.  Also, the horses aren't electrocuted to death..they are rendered unconscience with the electricity, and then they would be killed in a more humane fashion, most likely bled out.  It's not pretty, but no death really is.  Personally, I would much rather see a horse killed that way than see them starve for months at a farm that can't take care of them because hay is too expensive to feed them.  To me, they're livestock.  They have a purpose, they're not meant to be pasture ornaments. I'm probably way off here, but that's okay with me.  I want to learn.

Instead of telling us that slaughter is wrong, do you have a better solution for all the extra horses? 

 

[renegade]

I miss understood what they were saying about the electrocution.  Like i said before a bullet is more kind.  Im not saying the flightyness for slaughter house but for the countless hours they have to spend on the trailer their.  You have to admit when they haul cattle that cattle arent gonna be biting eachother, typically they wont trample eachother to death, legs wont be broken and eye missing, etc.  Also arent gas prices a big reason for the rise in grain, feed and even our food and what it takes to get around - therefore this leaves less to take care of your horse and you are hauling it to an auction yard or letting starve. I didnt think that i came off as i wanted horses to starve to death, I actually keep horses from that. I know i cant save them all and i have had to turn away animals.  Slaughter wont end in and although i dont like it i know that but i think the conditions on which they are sold, hauled and killed need to be regulated and ACTUALLY regulated not just a law on a piece of paper.  They need to be enforced and the same inspectors that are present before, during and after market animals are slaughtered need to be at horse packing plants too. 

 

[Dusty]

I miss understood what they were saying about the electrocution.  Like i said before a bullet is more kind.  Im not saying the flightyness for slaughter house but for the countless hours they have to spend on the trailer their.  You have to admit when they haul cattle that cattle arent gonna be biting eachother, typically they wont trample eachother to death, legs wont be broken and eye missing, etc.  Also arent gas prices a big reason for the rise in grain, feed and even our food and what it takes to get around - therefore this leaves less to take care of your horse and you are hauling it to an auction yard or letting starve. I didnt think that i came off as i wanted horses to starve to death, I actually keep horses from that. I know i cant save them all and i have had to turn away animals.  Slaughter wont end in and although i dont like it i know that but i think the conditions on which they are sold, hauled and killed need to be regulated and ACTUALLY regulated not just a law on a piece of paper.  They need to be enforced and the same inspectors that are present before, during and after market animals are slaughtered need to be at horse packing plants too. 

Read the post about the economy to get some opinions on why grain and fuel prices are where they are.
I've never been to a horse slaughtering facility, but I imagined they are probably handled the same as most other livestock.  Cattle spend a lot of time on trailers too.  And i realize that cattle don't bite each other in the trailer, but the ride to the packing house isn't exactly pleasant for them sometimes.  I mean there's insurance when you sell cattle a lot of times to pay for the ones that die on the truck on the way there.  A lot of times they are so fat that if they go down they can't get up and yeah they don't make it.  Or they get too hot etc...  It's really more common than it should be, but it happens.  I think it's an admirable thing to keep horses from starving.  I hate seeing any animal suffer needlessly.  Like I said in an earlier post sometimes the guy that gives them the bullet is kindest person in their life.  Horses break legs all the time on the race track, we don't ban horse racing.  There are a lot of unpleasant things that happen in all livestock industries.

 

[shortyjock89]

I agree Dusty... Renegade, sorry for the tone of my post.  I also admire that you save horses.  But you have to acknowledge that the market is flooded. What can be done with the excess horses?

 

[renegade]

Horse racing is another thing totally - A LOT of shadyness, abuse and greed that keeps it going but also a lot of nice people - lots of healthy horses are sent from the track to slaughter because they are slow.  I acknowledged several times that the market is flooded and that there is no easy fix and slaughter is going to happen. Like i said - it kinda sickens me that people eat horse meat but not a whole lot i can do about it its the conditions under which it is done.  About nine times outta ten there is no inspector because it isnt federally funded and so they kinda dont/didnt have to have one. And of course stuff happens with other animals, i completely agree, but you have to admit that its a lot more uncommon in other livestock - a lot of it having to do with the fact that the equipment is built for those animals and the "personality" of the diffrent species. 

 

[Rocky Hill Simmental]

We can't sell horses for anything right now. All of them have been for sale since last spring and nobody has showed any interest in buying them. We could bring them to the salebarn but it costs $35 to run them through and most aren't even bringing that.

In other contries, people love horse meat. I heard once that in Japan they have icecream flavored like horse meat. I tried to imagine beef favored icecream but I couldn't do it. I wonder how beef flavored icecream would taste?

Horses are a little more spooky than other livestock but overall they aren't much different then hogs, cattle, or goats (except horses stomp more hay). Many of slaughter horses would be suffering if they weren't hauled on a trailer anyway. I think groups like PETA make it seem more dramitic than it really is though.

We better hope they don't make a movie about some little girl and her show steer.  They next thing ya know we won't be able to cut their heads off either...

They made a movie about a show steer. It's called Grand Champion. It's one of my favorite movies actually.

Many a people missed the point of Charotte's Web. PETA actually made commericals and broadcased them on nick were these kids were getting pork for lunch at their school and wouldn't eat it. They were saying "save wilber! Become a vegan!" (I think they already saved Wilber from becoming a porkchop anyway lol Didn't peta watch the movie?)

What I got from both Charotte's Web and Grand Champion was there are some special animals in our lives we don't want to get rid of because they are our friendships with them but overall we should keep eating meat because if we don't then nobody would be breeding these awesome animals (for both eating and companionship). I know I have a pet sterile heifer but I send a lot of my fertile heifers to the feedlot to become hamburgers. It's just a part of life. If you don't want to eat your Wilber or Hokey, you don't have to but that doesn't mean you can't chow down on a hamburger or steak anyway.

A lot of city slickers think steers and pigs are gross anyway. Most of them think horses are "pretty" animals and are therefore human. What people need to realize is animals are NOT humans - they're animals and every animal has a purpose. Some are pets, some are for working, but in the end they're all food. It's just part of life.

 

[daydreamingacres]

I miss understood what they were saying about the electrocution.  Like i said before a bullet is more kind.  Im not saying the flightyness for slaughter house but for the countless hours they have to spend on the trailer their.  You have to admit when they haul cattle that cattle arent gonna be biting eachother, typically they wont trample eachother to death, legs wont be broken and eye missing, etc.  Also arent gas prices a big reason for the rise in grain, feed and even our food and what it takes to get around - therefore this leaves less to take care of your horse and you are hauling it to an auction yard or letting starve. I didnt think that i came off as i wanted horses to starve to death, I actually keep horses from that. I know i cant save them all and i have had to turn away animals.  Slaughter wont end in and although i dont like it i know that but i think the conditions on which they are sold, hauled and killed need to be regulated and ACTUALLY regulated not just a law on a piece of paper.  They need to be enforced and the same inspectors that are present before, during and after market animals are slaughtered need to be at horse packing plants too. 

I agree about regulating inspection. I also think that horses should have facilities that deal with their flightyness (is that a word?) and their natural behavior. Hogs can be just as vicous as horses. We had a sow that killed the boar when we put him in the pen. I've even had piglets from the same litter that when we put them back together the rip each other apart! Also to the poster about rescuing horses I have a great amount of respect for you as I think most peole here also like horses and may even. In my last post I said that I dont think that horses are any different from anyother livestock....I ment that in the respect that they should not be exempt from being eaten. I understand that their behaviors are different and the should be handeled differently. Good points everyone!

 

[daydreamingacres]

Another post on the same line.. My husband and I have the pulling oxen because here in the Northeast it is BIG at our local fairs...... Well there are constantly people on the sidelines complaining about how "cruel are are to them" "beating them and making them pull the big loads" for most people that have oxen they are either a dairy bull or a chiX..... 99.9% of the time they are required to have horns.....anyways most of the guys (and gals) that pull the oxen treat them with the best of care partailly beacsue they have spent so much time with them and partially beacsue they need them to be in the best condition to pull. They are fed the best feed, minerals, electolites....etc. and we do drive them with a wooden, plastick or lash stick but in no way are we beating them. In our New Engalnd association you get a three hit rule and some states they are more strick..... my point is whenever people complain about me "beating my holstins" I just tell them they coulda been veal. our animals arent put under fans all day but they are worked everyday and we USE them to do things like firewood and move round bales. The country folk just accept it and the farther Nothyou go the more people are into it. some city folk just dont seem to know where they came from. again sorry for my rambling!

 

[knabe]

whoa, gives new meaning to maintenance.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7629918.stm

In the financial proceedings, she sought enough money to purchase a house with sufficient land to graze the horses. She also sought a reasonable maintenance, factoring in the cost of looking after them.

The judge at first instance recognised her needs in terms of herself and the horses and she was awarded enough money to buy a large property with land. She was also awarded maintenance of £50,000 a year to meet her needs, including those of the horses. Her ex appealed against the decision but failed.

hmmm.  i thought it was about pursuing happiness, not suing for it.  sad one can rationalize this.

 

[knabe]

i wonder if humans are natural predators of wolves.  removing man from the environment is so, um, unnatural.

http://hotair.com/archives/2008/11/12/palin-wolf-thinning-project-worked/

    Slaughtering wolves on the Alaska Peninsula appears to have had the desired effect — more caribou got a chance to live, according to biologists with the Alaska Department of Fish and Game.

    As ugly and as politically incorrect as the wolf killing might seem to some, they said, the helicopter gunning that took place earlier this year saved caribou, especially young caribou, from being eaten alive.

    Fall surveys of the Southern Alaska Peninsula caribou herd completed in October found an average of 39 calves per 100 cows. That’s a dramatic improvement from fall counts of only 1 calf per 100 cows in 2006 and 2007.
[size=10pt][size=10pt]
The wolves present a far greater danger to caribou than drilling ever did, but I guess caribou are only valuable as a means to block drilling.[/size][/size]