how big is too big

[ROAD WARRIOR]

Everybody talks about cows/bulls being too big. Now the question - is too big based on frame score size or weight or what is your ideas based on.

 

[shortyjock89]

I say that too big/small is based on frame score for me.  Sure if I have one that doesn't weigh as much as I would like, then I'm going to cull it, but that's a coverage/condition issue and not a matter of too big/small.  Too big for me is anything bigger than 7.  I actually prefer a smaller cow, but if there is an awesome frame 7 cow, then I'm not necessarily going to pass her up.  I like my cows to be between 5 and 6 on frame score.  Kinda small for some people, but its bigger than what TJ likes lol.

 

[pigguy]

i like all of them, we have some small some huge. i owuld say it is getting a little big when you have one with a frame of 8 and weighs about 2500lbs  we have a couple belgin blue cross. she weighs a good 1800 lbs with a frame of about 7

 

[ROAD WARRIOR]

The reason for this post - I have a cow that frame scores a short 6 that we showed as a pair last year, even nursing a 4 month old calf she still weighed 1980 lbs, most of the time people were impressed with her depth and mass but most said she was too big. I like bigger cattle and she suits me fine but wondered what the term too big meant to everyone else

 

[shortyjock89]

Any cow that can do that on minimal supplementation is okay in my book..My favorite cow is like that...she might only weigh about 1650 though..last time we weighed her she was 6 mos. pregnant and weighed 1800..she raises the best and heaviest calves..and is always in good condition.  What is too big for you RW..weight and FS?

 

[Show Heifer]

My favorite cow is a red, 1000 pounder that brings in a calf that will wean at 600-700 pounds. NO JOKE.  This year with 35 days creep, her calf is pushing 750 (DOB March 15). I'll get a weight on Saturday.
She is awesome, but not impressive looking.
Too big for me is a percentage of weaned calf. My goal is 60% of calf weight for cow weight. And my cows get NO feed during the summer, corn stalks and hay in winter (corn silage if I have it to subsitute for hay). But no additional grain unless it drops below 0 degrees.
So, if a 1800 pound cow can wean a calf that weighs 1000 pounds, then she IS'NT too big. If a 1000 pound cow can't wean a 600 pound calf then she IS too big.
My herd is between 1000 and 1600#, ages between heifers and 18 years old (limi cows age well). I will report weaning weights Saturday....but I expect some big whoopers!!! (clapping) (clapping)

 

[DL]

I like big cows and if TJ and I were to switch places chances are we would thing we were in Gulliver's Travels.

I use the combination eyeball-armpit method to determine frame score and the scale for weight - the armpit method is highly scientific and incredibly accurate  ;D - I stand at the side of the cow by the hip -  if I put my arm over her hip and it is a 90 degree angle she is (on my farm) one of the "little cows". If the arm goes up at a 30 degree angle that would be a "moderate" cow and if the arm goes over at a greater than 45 degree angle that would be a big cow and and if the arm goes over at a greater than 45 degree angle I can't touch the other side that would be a huge cow! (On most places my "little cows" might be considered moderate and all the rest big  )

I have a surprising number of "little" and "moderate" cows considering that they all arose from big cows but I have been able to downsize one line in 2 generations and consistently maintain that size with successive generations - however my cows are still bigger than what many want, averaging 1700lbs - as long as they maintain condition with minimal input they can stay, including the huge cow who tips the scale at 2400 - RW if you like the cow who really cares if someone thinks she is too big?? (someone else might think she is too little or the wrong color

 

[itk]

There is no such thing as a cow that is to big at our place. To me a cow can be any size as long as she has enough body and stays in good condition. We also don't care about the percentage of calf weaned because we must remember that half of the genetic make-up of the calf is from the sire. There are some bulls that no matter what are not going to sire a calf that will weigh 60% of their dam. I admit in the commercial world this might not fly but in my make believe show world it works. The other thing that I like about big cows is they allow me to use the popular clubby type bulls without having to worry about getting "pumpkin" calves. When we breed our big cows to clubby bulls the resulting offspring are just the right size for me and we can still offer our buyers calves out of the popular sires they are looking for.

 

[TJ]

My favorite cow is a red, 1000 pounder that brings in a calf that will wean at 600-700 pounds. NO JOKE.  This year with 35 days creep, her calf is pushing 750 (DOB March 15). I'll get a weight on Saturday.
She is awesome, but not impressive looking.
Too big for me is a percentage of weaned calf. My goal is 60% of calf weight for cow weight. And my cows get NO feed during the summer, corn stalks and hay in winter (corn silage if I have it to subsitute for hay). But no additional grain unless it drops below 0 degrees.
So, if a 1800 pound cow can wean a calf that weighs 1000 pounds, then she IS'NT too big. If a 1000 pound cow can't wean a 600 pound calf then she IS too big.
My herd is between 1000 and 1600#, ages between heifers and 18 years old (limi cows age well). I will report weaning weights Saturday....but I expect some big whoopers!!! (clapping) (clapping)

I agree 100% about the percentage of body weight weaned.  Weaning 60% has been my main objective for almost 20 years now.   I don't mind cows up to about 1400 lbs., and I've even got a Red Angus cow that probably weighs 1600+, but I am breeding her "down".    Of course, I've got some 750-800 lb. fullblood cows too, but my fullbloods are more of a hobby... the crossbreds are where my real interest lies.

Ideally, give me a frame 4.5 cow that weighs 1250-1300 lbs., on grass, that can wean a 750+ lb. calf, without creep & that calf will go on to grade choice with a yeild grade 2, at 14 months, with only 45-60 days on grain & I'll be happy!!    (clapping)

 

[ROAD WARRIOR]

Any cow that can do that on minimal supplementation is okay in my book..My favorite cow is like that...she might only weigh about 1650 though..last time we weighed her she was 6 mos. pregnant and weighed 1800..she raises the best and heaviest calves..and is always in good condition.  What is too big for you RW..weight and FS?

I'm not sure what too big is for me. I've had some really big cows that I really liked, always raised the high selling calves. But I've seen some big cows that were just big and thats all. If a cow is good enough I guess it really doesn't matter to me how big she is. As far as the % of her body weight that she weans off doesn't play a big role in my oppinion, it's the % of debt that her calf pays off for me that really matters. I like my cows big if they're good but don't like one that is not good no matter what size she is. My cow herd probably averages 1800 + lbs.

 

[shorthorns r us]

calf will go on to grade choice with a yeild grade 2, at 14 months, with only 45-60 days on grain & I'll be happy!!    (clapping)

you don't want much do you
O0

 

[TJ]

Since this thread asks the question "how big is too big", I wanted to share what a new customer of mine, who is wanting to get into raising Red Angus, recently told me. I am selling this gentleman 2 of my Red Angus heifers (not Lowlines).  These heifers are right around frame 5 - 5.5 & probably will mature at slightly over 1300 lbs..   He told me that all the other Red Angus that he's seen, are in his opinion "too big" & he was glad that he found these 2.  Of course, this is just one persons opinion, but I just wanted to point out that I am not the only one who likes for their cattle to be under a frame 6.  

IMHO, cattle aren't too big or too small unless you can't sell them for the amount that you are expecting someone to pay!!  

 

[TJ]

calf will go on to grade choice with a yeild grade 2, at 14 months, with only 45-60 days on grain & I'll be happy!!    (clapping)

you don't want much do you
O0

I admit it, I want a lot, but with the right genetics, I am hoping that what I described may not be too far from reailty.  Anyway, those are indeed my goals & only time will tell if I will acheive them. 

 

[ROAD WARRIOR]

Since this thread asks the question "how big is too big", I wanted to share what a new customer of mine, who is wanting to get into raising Red Angus, recently told me. I am selling this gentleman 2 of my Red Angus heifers (not Lowlines).  These heifers are right around frame 5 - 5.5 & probably will mature at slightly over 1300 lbs..   He told me that all the other Red Angus that he's seen, are in his opinion "too big" & he was glad that he found these 2.  Of course, this is just one persons opinion, but I just wanted to point out that I am not the only one who likes for their cattle to be under a frame 6.  

IMHO, cattle aren't too big or too small unless you can't sell them for the amount that you are expecting someone to pay!!  

TJ - it is getting easier and easier to find frame 5 cattle in the reds. In my part of the world unless she is really good her value is significantly reduced at that frame and anything below that we hide out behind the barn untill we can get them loaded for the sale barn. Different geographic areas have different requirements and different people also have different requirements, which is probably a good thing or the cattle business would look like cookie cutter copies and not have any variation. Go with what works for you!

 

[TJ]

Since this thread asks the question "how big is too big", I wanted to share what a new customer of mine, who is wanting to get into raising Red Angus, recently told me. I am selling this gentleman 2 of my Red Angus heifers (not Lowlines).  These heifers are right around frame 5 - 5.5 & probably will mature at slightly over 1300 lbs..   He told me that all the other Red Angus that he's seen, are in his opinion "too big" & he was glad that he found these 2.  Of course, this is just one persons opinion, but I just wanted to point out that I am not the only one who likes for their cattle to be under a frame 6.  

IMHO, cattle aren't too big or too small unless you can't sell them for the amount that you are expecting someone to pay!!  

TJ - it is getting easier and easier to find frame 5 cattle in the reds. In my part of the world unless she is really good her value is significantly reduced at that frame and anything below that we hide out behind the barn untill we can get them loaded for the sale barn. Different geographic areas have different requirements and different people also have different requirements, which is probably a good thing or the cattle business would look like cookie cutter copies and not have any variation. Go with what works for you!

I was honestly kind of suprised when he told me about all the BIG Red Angus that he had seen.  I agree that different areas & different people will all have different goals & sometimes those goals will change over time.  I used to like BIG cows, now I like them smaller.  I also know people that have gone from small to big.  Nothing wrong with BIG or small cows if you can sell tham easily for good money!!
 

 

[ROAD WARRIOR]

TJ - I guess that we should all try to net work togather - you could sell my smaller ones if I get one and I could sell your big ones!

 

[stick]

no cow is really too big or too small, as long as they work for you in your particular operation and environment

 

[red]

I like big framed cows. My big red cow is probably a 7 in frame size. That being said my best cows are in the 5-6 frame score. I look more for a cow that can calve easy, keeps her condition w/ hay & can raise a calf.
I think also if you looking for cows that will produce show winners you need to keep size in mind. A big huge framed cow isn't probably going to raise a calf that will win unless you downsize her some.

Red

 

[ELBEE]

I like Show Heifers thoughts on weaning 60% of damm's body weight. I also like the idea of harvesting calves with acceptable carcass's at 13 months.

1250# cow x60% = 750# calf @ 205 days + 180 days on feed x 3.5 ADG = 630# for a harvest weight of 1380 @ 13 months.

How economically can you get this done?

 

[chambero]

The vast majority of the money you make on a calf is based on their weight.  I think a lot of people want their cows too small.  A couple of things to consider:

For show steer purposes - there is no shortage of thick, dumpy bulls to breed a larger framed cow to.  Nowadays it seems too many steers don't get big enough instead of the opposite.

For commercial purposes - a big cow isn't a drawback for us as long as she is "easy doing".