how many are open after stalks??

[jbzdad]

all were pregged and were 5 months before stalks.. just back home last week... now one is in heat

we had 4-6 percent (3-4  of 80) after pregged positive at 5 months last year... what percent show up open for you guys??

they were on stalks 3.5 months .. on grass before that.. starting after weaning .. so grass 2.5 months then stalks 

pregged after grass and before stalks

 

[aj]

High nitrates can abort calves. Here there wasn't any corn on the ground. Also....the bt corn of today produces a corn stalk that is tougher to digest. What state are you in?

 

[jbzdad]

southwest kansas.. just wondering if our experience is what most would expect

 

[beebe]

Dr. Don Huber has talked about GMO corn affecting reproduction.  I don't have any proof of that but since I quit planting GMO corn I get more grazing and my cows look better.

 

[Medium Rare]

Dr. Don Huber has talked about GMO corn affecting reproduction.  I don't have any proof of that but since I quit planting GMO corn I get more grazing and my cows look better.

This is the same individual who claims he has discovered a new "thing" or "pathogen" derived from glyphosate use.  His claims of it being spread via GMO crops and causing harm to people, plants, and animals is currently basic fear mongering that's been called out by others in the industry while he dodges anyone who has asked to see or study the "organism".  If this "organism" is so wide spread, as he claims it is pretty well everywhere, and easily cultivated in the lab then he should easily be able to produce it for viewing.  Until he provides proof the "organism" actually exists, I consider him to be a liar and anything he claims from this point forward should be looked at as junk science until peer reviewed and replicated by others in the scientific world.

If he really has been sitting on a potentially devastating organism all these years then he's doing the world a serious disservice by not allowing it to be studied and sequenced in order to prepare for the affects it could have on future food production.

 

[Tyler]

We have 1-3% that are confirmed pregnant every year that do not calve or abort.  I think that is about average, could be just bad luck last year, if it gets worse or is consistently above 5% I would be looking for the problem.  Are they palpated or ultrasounded?  An inexperienced vet has terminated pregnancies and even killed a cow while palpating for us.

 

[jbzdad]

Tyler.. that is what I was asking.. thanks

these were all palpated at 4.5 to 5 months ... just one of 80 open  also one premature delivery 3 weeks ago (calf didn't survive) ... will continue to monitor

 

[Lucky_P]

Medium Rare beat me to the punch - Huber's claims are unsubstantiated...and it looks as though they'll stay that way... for a reason, perhaps?

http://www.biofortified.org/2014/01/deconstructing-don-huber-a-tale-of-two-talks/

 

[beebe]

I did not mean to ruffle feathers here.  I used Dr. Hubers name because I heard him speak about a month ago.  When he spoke he often referred to other peoples research, so he is not the only one looking at these things.  I was just conveying a possible reason for abortions on cornstalks.  Seems I must have touched a nerve or two.  Have you guys heard him speak?  I don't have an agenda here I am just trying to learn.  Dr. Huber has better credentials than I do.

 

[Lucky_P]

beebe,
No ruffled feathers...but until Huber shows some proof...I can only regard him as a huckster and shill for the rabid anti-GMO crowd who rely on emotion and not sound science to advance their agenda.  Credentials don't necessarily equate to credibility.  I've not heard him speak, but have been reading of his unpublished, unreviewed, and closely-guarded 'findings'  for several years.  Unfortunately, the other people's research he often refers to is stuff like the thoroughly discredited Seralini and Carman 'studies'.
I'm not necessarily a rabid proponent of GMO crops...they are just another tool.

Now, as to the open cows...without doing some diagnostics...it's anyone's guess.  And, unfortunately, if all you've got is open cows, about all you can do is draw blood samples and look at possible nutrition issues - neither of which are likely to provide a clear answer at this point in time.  Best chance at a definitive diagnosis would have been examination of aborted fetuses and PLACENTA... if they were safe in calf at 5 months, and someone was looking at these cows on a daily basis, they might have(should have) seen abortuses.

High nitrates, as aj indicated, can cause abortion, without killing the cow.  Neospora, Lepto, IBR, BVD are among the more common infectious causes of abortion we see;  other possibilities...less common.

 

[aj]

I'm not anti gmo. I did have a neighbor who had bt and non bt corn planted on a creek bottom. He noticed that the deer prefered the non bt corn.....as far as taste of the corn. Kind of interesting. Could gmo corn have a different taste that would affect consumption? In theory it could. I doubt that its bitter or anything but who knows.

 

[Lucky_P]

aj,
I don't pretend to play a plant geneticist or crop scientist, even on TV; but, I've seen other folks who've run cows on cornstalks for years, opine that the newer varieties have harder stalks, don't degrade as rapidly, and possibly provide less nutrition to cows gleaning the field - due to the cows consuming less, or higher lignin levels.
I don't know if that's a function of the genetic engineering/modification, a la RR, Bt, etc.... or if it's just a function of the varieties that those genes were inserted into - stronger-rooted, higher lignin content in the stalk to diminish windthrow & lodging, etc. 

Is there a difference in taste?  I dunno.  Even with 'conventional' varieties, if you planted two side-by-side, the critters might prefer one over the other.

 

[beebe]

A few years ago I grazed a neighbors stalks.  He brought it to my attention that the part of the field that the cows were grazing on was not bt.  You could see it to the row which they preferred.  I have quit planting GMO crops and have tried to monitor the difference in grazing days and condition of my cows.  I believe there is a significant difference plus there is a market developing for non GMO beef.  There is no longer a financial reason for me to raise GMO crops.

 

[aj]

Good points.....I think it is a higher lignen deal. Usually the cows eat the plant tops......shucks.....and ears. The cornstalk.....anchored to the ground is a last resort. That is where the nitrate is......and the tougher stuff is. I don't see anyone around here backing off gmo corn.

 

[nkotb]

I would think it would be more of a higher lignin, push for better agronomics deal than a Bt deal.  In theory, the Bt could effect the rumen microbes, but not sure, since the proteins are specific to insects.  Most of the information provided in side by side type trials is anecdotal:  "It seemed like they preferred" or "I thought they preferred."  Not saying it isn't true, but no hard research on the topic.  I may be wrong as well, but I doubt there's too many people clammoring to create new, non-Bt varieties, hence why I feel like it's more of an advanced agronomic characteristic than a Bt characteristic.  Regardless, we will continue to utilize stalks as we have yet to find a cheaper way to get through winter.

 

[jbzdad]

nTKOB...does that 1-3 percent match your experience?

 

[nkotb]

With the low number of head we've got, it's hard to say for sure what percent.  Some years we will see one slip between pregs and coming off stalks, usually we don't see any.  Keep in mind however, we are a very low sample set.  Our biggest issue with the cornstalks is most of the ones we rent, the grower uses an old L2 Gleaner, and it leaves quite a bit of corn on the ground, leading to higher energy than the cows need, leading to some extra visits to the hoof trimmer.

 

[colosteers]

On several occasions, I have seen cows that stood to be rode and thought they were in standing heat---  and calved several months later.  Don't know why, but I don't take it as serious that they are open till they are preg checked. 

Seen one last summer, stand to be rode about 90 days after AI, and is now springing up and looking like she is going to calve to the AI.

You might very well have a open cow, but I would double check before turning into hamburger. 

Have a good one