I really don't need the abuse but I am going to do it anyway

[justintime]

Oh I remember him. Didn’t the shorthorn place with the Clydesdales buy him?

Yup... that is correct. After Bluebook's show career was over, the owner said to me that he was only worth market price to him then. I told him I would give him market price, and of course he then said he would not do this. After a few months of negotiating, I was able to do a deal to bring him back here. 
As a sideline to the Bluebook story, when he was shown at the Royal Winter Fair in Toronto as a two year old, we were approached  by two dark skinned men who asked if they could see Bluebook out of the stall. I took him up and down the isle a few times while they looked at him. They then asked if he would be for sale? it turns out that they were buying agents for a Shiek in Quator, and they said that they had been buying Charolais and some Shorthorns in England. Quator is the wealthiest country on earth. The guy who owned Bluebook said that most anything was for sale but he would need $50,000 in US cash in order to sell him. They did not even blink at the price and said they would agree to this and would be back in 1 week with the money. One day later, there was a Muslim attack in Paris where a lot of people were killed. I talked with the guy in Ontario and we both agreed that there are times when money is not the only thing of importance. He emailed the Arabs and said that the bull was no longer for sale. I did some checking when I got home ( and I still have their business cards) and they were indeed who they said they were. I found the name of the Shiek in Quator, and read that he has a dairy herd of 1800 milking cows and that he was also starting to raise beef cattle that had been purchased in England. They were distilling water from the ocean and irrigating the desert to produce forage for the cattle herds. The story also said that he had purchased several Thoroughbred horses in sales in Kentucky at some very high dollars. ( Some in the $1 million range).  Bluebook is  here now and is doing a very good job for us. I ma not sure what would have happened if they hadn't attacked Paris that day. There is a good chance Bluebook would have boarded a private 747 and now be living on a sand pile.

 

[RyanChandler]

The shiek in quator!? Qatar I assume you mean? Or is this Quatar a Fantasia type place of yours!?  but boy the shit is getting deep in here!  The stories just keep getting more and more convoluted.  If it weren’t for the unsuspecting’s hard earned money on the line I’d just f’n laugh at the outrageousness. 

 

[justintime]

Sorry for the spelling mistake xbar. I am so used to using a " u" after a " q" that I did not even notice that I had done that. I thought it was a interesting story to mention. Nothing more than that. I also know that these two Arabs came very close to purchasing one of the Charolais champions at the Royal that year as well. The deal fell apart after the terror attacks in France as well. I heard this from the General Manager of the Canadian Charolais Assocation. I only mentioned this story as I thought it may interest some. Obviously, not you. I am fine with that.  To me, it just shows that the entire world is becoming a market place for beef genetics.

 

[justintime]

Seems to me that Grants sale has a sale average that would put him right there with Saskvalley and Muridale sale averages. I didn’t crunch true numbers. Generally speaking is all I’m saying. I see lots of saskvalley and muridale genetucs being used down here. Almost every big “commercial” type sale here has offspring of genetics from sask and Muri. Studer, JSF, Bar N, Leveldale, BSG, Paint Valley, all have used those genetics heavily. I’ve never seen an HC bull being plugged in lately. Seems to me the HC cattle could be a nice outcross to those other ranches but you never see it in any of their pedigrees. I could be wrong. The JT Trans X bull must of done some good. That’s a outfit that sells in Grants sale. I see lots of criss cross from the saskvalley and Muri programs. Similar environments maybe. I’ve never been to either place. Never seen JIT’s cows. Done lots of deals with XBAR and have some of his cattle here now. He had a bull calf hand picked for me. He didn’t like how the calf was developing so he sent me a different bull. His opinion on bulls and his experience shouldn’t be looked upon as an attack on somebody. It’s reality. Grant has a good thing going with his embryos and semen sales. He does good at the shows up there. Can’t say he hasn’t done his share of winning up there. Can’t begrudge a mans success. I think the disconnect comes when another post comes up claiming a world beater of a bull with minimal evidence to back it up. If I pay 16k for a bull and somebody offers me 16k for half soon after, it’s a ridiculous business decision to say no. Ridiculous. Unless it’s a personal beef I can’t see why somebody would say no. How many shorthorn bulls have sold 16k in semen? Offspring? That list isn’t very long compared to angus. I’ve seen angus bulls bring 18,500 at a local sale in Ohio! Never seen a shorthorn bull bring more than 3500 at anything smaller than a beef expo. I don’t know if any outfit here that sells every bull they have for sale. Maybe some do. I just don’t know of any.

There is no easy quick fix way to develop a market for Shorthorn bulls. Over 30 years ago, I made a long term goal of mine to develop a market for my bulls. I made this a goal as I watched several of my friends in other breeds sell their bulls to make their payments. I was always selling my females to do the same thing. It took years and years to start to sell Shorthorn bulls here, in quantity. It still requires a pile of work each year, but it is getting easier than it used to be.

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

Oh I remember him. Didn’t the shorthorn place with the Clydesdales buy him?

Yup... that is correct. After Bluebook's show career was over, the owner said to me that he was only worth market price to him then. I told him I would give him market price, and of course he then said he would not do this. After a few months of negotiating, I was able to do a deal to bring him back here. 
As a sideline to the Bluebook story, when he was shown at the Royal Winter Fair in Toronto as a two year old, we were approached  by two dark skinned men who asked if they could see Bluebook out of the stall. I took him up and down the isle a few times while they looked at him. They then asked if he would be for sale? it turns out that they were buying agents for a Shiek in Quator, and they said that they had been buying Charolais and some Shorthorns in England. Quator is the wealthiest country on earth. The guy who owned Bluebook said that most anything was for sale but he would need $50,000 in US cash in order to sell him. They did not even blink at the price and said they would agree to this and would be back in 1 week with the money. One day later, there was a Muslim attack in Paris where a lot of people were killed. I talked with the guy in Ontario and we both agreed that there are times when money is not the only thing of importance. He emailed the Arabs and said that the bull was no longer for sale. I did some checking when I got home ( and I still have their business cards) and they were indeed who they said they were. I found the name of the Shiek in Quator, and read that he has a dairy herd of 1800 milking cows and that he was also starting to raise beef cattle that had been purchased in England. They were distilling water from the ocean and irrigating the desert to produce forage for the cattle herds. The story also said that he had purchased several Thoroughbred horses in sales in Kentucky at some very high dollars. ( Some in the $1 million range).  Bluebook is  here now and is doing a very good job for us. I ma not sure what would have happened if they hadn't attacked Paris that day. There is a good chance Bluebook would have boarded a private 747 and now be living on a sand pile.

Send me their phone number. I’ve got some shorthorns to sell them.

 

[justintime]

This is a son of HC Cruiser 59C that we showed at Agribition last week. He is HC Gasper 55G and he was born March 23rd,2019. He had an actual BW of 73 lbs and he was the second lowest BW of all our calves this year. He was weaned in late October and did not have any creep feed through the summer. At the last minute he was substituted for a bull I had planned to show that got sick. He weighed 768 at the show so what you see here was all done with milk and grass.
His sire HC Cruiser 59C has recently been sold to Shadybrook Farm Ltd, West Brome. Quebec. We will continue to use him through semen we have retained in him. Last January, when I posted a picture of Cruiser, several people who are on this site regularly told me he was a cow killer and yet we have had another calf crop that was completely born unassisted. The heaviest calf ever born from Cruiser had a BW pf 102 lbs and was born unassisted from a huge Simmental X Shorthorn cow. This calf is a incredibly long bodied red neck roan and is very impressive  Most of his calves are in the 80-90 lb range. A well known breeder of another breed, recently referred to Cruiser as being the stoutest beef bull of any breed he has ever seen. i thought his statement was pretty amazing considering that Cruiser isn't black!
We have not decided if we will sell 55G or if we will retain him to replace Cruiser, but if he is sold, he will be in pur Sun Country Sale on March 10th. He won his class in the Agribition show and was Reserve Junior Bull Calf Champion. We had interest in him from many people, including breeders of 3 other breeds, and a few clubbie producers. I wish we could have got him on display in Denver, but we will be busy clipping and picturing our sale cattle while Denver is on. An American told us, that he is the best bull prospect he has seen anywhere this year, including Louisville, Toronto and Kansas City.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Hes gonna sell some semen.Very interesting pedigree-his dam must be very unique-BEING HALF HAUMONT BREEDING (for all you maternal  JIT Bashers out there LOL)-along with Prosperity etc Then the documented performance cattle:gold, hot commodity and australian etc breeding on the top Hes got the deep Canadian look AND A  butt but remains prettier fronted than alot of bulls regardless of breed-Then ad real world  maternal that clubby and popular shorthorn show cattle need Just a JMO Spread him out and make it easy to get for everyone-Put him on  Cattle Visions and SEK that way those who want to try 3 straws etc will be able to try him along with the larger amounts-He will build some momentum long term If he breeds well: the flood gates will probably open-just takes time . Im sure you will sell a bunch of semen  in Canada England, Ireland as well O0

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

Bw on your sign at Agri sure doesn’t say 73 pounds. Looks like it says 86 or 96 pounds. I zoomed in and couldn’t be for sure. But that don’t look like a 73

 

[mark tenenbaum]

i saw that too. Looks like 86-Id still use him on a hardoing looking angular cow-lots of them around.I didnt think anyone would use one that massive on a heifer-Hes still got some pretty good bones in the pedigree O0

 

[justintime]

Bw on your sign at Agri sure doesn’t say 73 pounds. Looks like it says 86 or 96 pounds. I zoomed in and couldn’t be for sure. But that don’t look like a 73

The BW on my sign at Agribition was a mistake. When I looked up his birth information in my calf book, I read the BW of the calf below him in it. Of course, I was filling out my stall cards in a hurry just before I left for the show. I came home after dropping the cattle off at the show and happened to look at my calving book again and realized that I had made a mistake. When I got back to the show I did not have a erasable marker to make the correction on the sign.( It was supposed to be in the top drawer of my tack box)  His correct actual BW was 73 lbs, and he was weighed on a calf scale and it was not estimated or one of those measuring tapes used. He was very tiny at birth, and I thought he was going to be a twin. There wasn't another calf.

 

[Dale]

On Digitalbeef (Canadian) his BW is 73 lb.

 

[aj]

No doubt in my mind he is a heifer bull.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Remains to be seen-hes a really good one regardless sure spruce up some red ones-Probably the coolest Canadian Ive seen and not a whole lot of cow killer genetics in his pedigree O0

 

[aj]

Looks like he has the white hoofs...…..doesn't seem to show much testicle......what was his age?

 

[RyanChandler]

No doubt in my mind he is a heifer bull.

Oh absolutely.  Nothing in the pedigree to suggest otherwise  :


SB PROUD VENTURE BW EPD 5.4
CF TRUMP 3.8
JSF TOP HAND 4.6
SPRYS ALL GOLD 3.8
SPRYS AUSSIE GOLD 6.3
BYLAND GOLD PLATED 5.1

 

[mark tenenbaum]

I have seen calves out of all but Sprys Aussie gold The Jungels, Brockmueller Bennett of washington Rocker Bros Byland Goldwalk incarnations et al were bred for growth in an era when a 90 pound calf was the norm - I WISH THEY STILL WERE I seriously doubt over a multi generation pedigree there are a bunch of 150 pound monsters out of the performance cattle listed I cannot vouch for bulls used by Ripberger etc-(I dont think they can either) but thier cows are the obvious other side of the equationThat leaves-CF prosperity his dams grandsire-Seen a ton of them used him myself and we will probably breed one heifer to him this year,hes every bit the DOUCUMENTED FOR 25 YEARS OR WHATEVER .08 CE bull as listed-just doesnt throw a great one every time I will take a wild guess you have some of the performance blood-RE RELATIVES TO SOME OF THE BULLS LISTED  blood in your herd -BREED THEM TO DIFFERENT COWS-different results THE SIRE-ON THE DAMS SIDE FROM PROSPERITY IS A LINE BRED HAUMONT WHOSE EPDS WOULD PROBABLY BE AT LEAST MINUS 3  FROM 100 YEARS OR WHATEVER OF LINEBREEDING IM gonna say if you average the top and bottom of this bull VERSUS what kind of U S reasonably sized female he is bred to-You are gonna see 85 to 90 pound calves due to the length and mass he posses-and the amalgom of cattle behind him-A large percentage of which are highly documented in the quest for some reason in bws and get there quick Grow. A real weighed 85 to 90 pound Shorthorn calf that isnt shaped like a football can come from many heifers -although i obviously dont advocate it-and just about any cow.Im sure they would be 5-10 pounds smaller out of real low BW genetics I have had a number of extremly low BW calves as well-NONE had the performance to merit keeping I dont think you are gonna produce 1175 pound yearling bulls made like him  in the 70s at birth in this breed down here  very often -Simple backwood physics they aint made like that O0

 

[justintime]

I don't consider any bull a heifer bull until I have had calves from them. I used his sire on a set of heifers, as a yearling after the bull I had planned to use, was killed by lightning. I was concerned but knew that he had been born unassisted from a first calf heifer. The heifers calved good.

I got an email from Shadybrook last night to let me know that Cruiser had arrived there after being 10 days on route from here. Lloyd Wright said he has never seen a Shorthorn bull that thick, and this is what others have said as well. While at Agribition, a well known Angus breeder stopped at my stall. He saw Cruiser last spring and he told me that he has told several others that Cruiser is the stoutest bull he has ever seen. I thought this was quite a statement to come from an Angus breeder.

If you don't like either of these bulls, you don't need to use them. Simple as that!

 

[mark tenenbaum]

(clapping) Pretty well states it-They are both useful to me and I forgot about Hotshot being back there with Hot Commodity who made magic with the "EPDS" of very hi BW show genetics-between: him, Prosperity, and the Haumont bull there are several generations of  documented CE in this calf close to 68% of his recent pedigree: more so than several US bulls that are just sons of Hot Commodity Seems like alot of people rely only on the percentages of "capture" "accuracy" RE EPDS rather than the real world  cattle combined in an animal. There are alot of 90 pound plus BW bulls with "great" epds O0

 

[justintime]

Looks like he has the white hoofs...…..doesn't seem to show much testicle......what was his age?

I wouldn't call his hooves white,but they are a lighter brown that I would like. This said, his sire has hooves that are a similar color and they have never been touched and probably never will need to be, Cruiser has an excellent hoof structure. As for testicle size, he definitely is adequate. Again when we were semen testing for our bull sale when Cruiser was 7 months old, my vet said there was no reason to test him, as he was too young and would never pass. I suggested that she test him and we would at least have a test result to compare any future tests with. We all were amazed when at 7 months of age he received the highest score ( 94%) out of the 31 yearling and two year old bulls tested that day. When I took Cruiser to collect some more semen before he left here, the vet said he had one the best semen samples he had seen this fall. I am hoping 55G will be like his sire, but we won't know for a few months yet.

 

[knabe]

validation from independent sources is always a plus.

slight knock.  the narrative always seems to be any negative is actually a positive at the opposite end of the spectrum.

this just isn't possible.

this type of narrative actually is not a positive because it's just so predictable and rarely comes with independent sources of verification.

the 10 standard deviation to the positive narrative is a little tiresome.

if the narrative were true even at a marginal level, shorthorn would register more than angus and dominate.