Johnny Football

[sizzler14]

Call it bullshit all you want, There is university data to prove it that was done by a professor that did his masters at Wisconsin. Do you even know how Th orginated in the United States?

 

[blackdiamond]

Call it bull**** all you want, There is university data to prove it that was done by a professor that did his masters at Wisconsin. Do you even know how Th orginated in the United States?

TH didn't come from the US, go ask your Professor from WI, maybe he'll give you the right answer...

Try Ireland.

Any University data proving that beef first calf heifers non-breed back ability is linked to production?  I sure doubt it's the linebreeding- since according to you that pollutes the world.

FYI: I believe very little around University studies- I spent time around them...

 

[sizzler14]

actually first described in galloways in the 1960's, then found in shorthorn bull imported in the 1970's

 

[blackdiamond]

actually first described in galloways in the 1960's, then found in shorthorn bull imported in the 1970's

very good...

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

Line breeding and single trait selection will ruin any herd. Leave the club calf people alone.lol they make more money than most people do. I dont understand why your so worried about cattle being consistent. Your profile pic is a shorthorn. only thing consistent about them is they look like aa damn dairy cow when you turn the, out on pasture and they milk like a heat wave heifer

That's the most ignorant statement I've read in sometime. You are clearly not educated properly in shorthorns. Please prove me wrong.

 

[HAB]

actually first described in galloways in the 1960's, then found in shorthorn bull imported in the 1970's

very good...

Due to no genetic testing being available, linebreeding was used to determine which bloodlines carried  TH in Galloways.  Breeders performed mid term abortions in suspect cattle.  Those cattle were then eliminated from the Galloway gene pool.  It is rumored one of the "closed" shorthorn herds in Ireland used a culled (due to TH) red Galloway bull.

 

[sizzler14]

Trevor grey, my family bred shorthorns in the 1970s for almost a decade and got away from them. Whenever I started showing, I wanted shorthorns. we again bred them for 10 years. I owned a bull called GCC Sundowner. a WHR SONNY X SS AUGUSTA PRIDE. Also owned a bull and worked for Woodside shorthorns. had females from Lehmans and some from WHR and even one from cates. I bought some shorthorns from a premier breeder in the state of PA and in that ten year spand, number one out on pasture these cows were atleast 200-300 ponds lighter than our angus, simmys, and clubcalf cows. Never once had one wean a calf within 100 pounds of our black calves. On top of that, we owned a female that was a MF Pacer son x Homedale Blizzard that in fact starved a calf. I will never own another shorthorn in my life. JMO. If you think they are great, more power to you, but first hand, I have personal experienced twice with shorthorns and I have never seen one milk better than a clubby including neighborng breeders.

Next, HAB kinda makes my point and doesnt realize it. I am not meaning that line breeding is all bad, If it is done once, it can be highly effective. They line bred those Galloways to find which ones were TH carriers. A single trait. That is my point. If you want to emphaize say milk production, sure line breed one. My point is, once it is done so many times that you might have one milk great but unless you cross it up at a certain point other trait really suffer. Hybrid Vigor was brought up and is an example of my point. There are times where hybrid vigor can be ignored by purebred breeders. at a certain point crossing them with a once cross cow can increase it, it also helps other traits. I agree that cows that get to be 3, 4, 5 way crosses are highly inconsistent. But in the show cattle world, there is no other breeding out there like it. Heck the show world isnt even consistent. I always hear peple joke how showing cattle is a cycle. Before Alias you didnt see the smoke sensation as much. Heck I remember when a hereford didnt stand a prayer in a crossbred class. I remember when they wanted cattle tall and no belly. no they want them short and belly draggers. in another ten years who knows what they will want. I feel it is hard to breed clubbys consistent whenever the whole industry isnt consistent as a whole. If I came off as bashing Line breeding, I didnt want to appear to do tht, I am saying that line breeding (too) much can actually regress your success because focusing on a single trait can be ineffective in the long run. the swine industry knows that, thats why they have formulas for mulity-trait selections making you able to weigh the importance of certain traits whil keeping others in mine. My herd bull is a linebred Ali. his calves look better than he does. But continuing to line breed them that way, I feel other traits would suffer, for example I feel I would be breeding cattle too framey to win jackpots. That is my point. Line breeding can pay major dividends, like the Galloways trying to do away with th. But Single trait selection like in the dairy cattle for milk production lead to a problems in other traits. Being able to line breed once and the culling system is a good way. and i agree get the bad genetics out of the woodpile. Friend of mine got an idea 5 years ago to every cow he had open in the fall that was supposed to be bred for spring he would cull. 1st year=17 open 2nd year=11 open 3rd=4 4th=1 and this year he had one. and he did that without line breeding. I am just saying that line breeding too many generations can sometimes be opposite of what we are wanting. And point 2, it is hard to breed for consistent cattle in the show world when it is always changing, the way we clip is always changing etc. The show catle world is ridiclous. We truly are all breeding for the one. problem is there is only 3 born a year out of how many? 500,000 at least? If i have ruffled any feathers i apologize, But I truly feel that line breeding is good one time, but after it is done sooo much it can go the opposite way throwing consisteny in certain traits, and sacrificing in many others. I have seen in not only in pigs but dogs and cattle as well.

also HAB, with wht your saying, it kind of makes since. We always associate the TH gene with hair, and Galloways can be hairy (atleast the ones i have seen)  (clapping)

 

[OH Breeder]

Trevor grey, my family bred shorthorns in the 1970s for almost a decade and got away from them. Whenever I started showing, I wanted shorthorns. we again bred them for 10 years. I owned a bull called GCC Sundowner. a WHR SONNY X SS AUGUSTA PRIDE. Also owned a bull and worked for Woodside shorthorns. had females from Lehmans and some from WHR and even one from cates. I bought some shorthorns from a premier breeder in the state of PA and in that ten year spand, number one out on pasture these cows were atleast 200-300 ponds lighter than our angus, simmys, and clubcalf cows. Never once had one wean a calf within 100 pounds of our black calves. On top of that, we owned a female that was a MF Pacer son x Homedale Blizzard that in fact starved a calf. I will never own another shorthorn in my life. JMO. If you think they are great, more power to you, but first hand, I have personal experienced twice with shorthorns and I have never seen one milk better than a clubby including neighborng breeders.

You seem to be making sweeping generalizations about the "ENTIRE" breed. I have been around Shorthorns my entire life as well. They have changed alot just as other breeds have. The one thing I would say is that they are NOT by any means the poorest milkers. We have a mix of breeds in our herd. The bulk is shorthorn. We have used alot of different genetics old and new. My leader 21st cow has the prettiest udder and milks like a champ while keeping her condition and weaning calves that are heavy. I have a WMW x angus cow that is also phenomenal. I have a Direct Hit x Simmental and she is one of the poorest milkers i have. I wouldn't say the entire simmy breed is poor milker based on that one cow or her genetics. It seems to me the genetics you selected weren't necessarily the "performance" type. I would suggest you talk to some OTHER shorthorns breeders before stamping the entire breed as poor milkers.

 

[knabe]

i wouldn't call single trait breeding, line breeding, i'd call that single trait breeding.

 

[RyanChandler]

You need to read Jim Lent's linebreeding book.   Linebreed one time? He's been linebreeding to the same bull for over 50 years.  




*another example of the piss poor show genetics in the shorthorn breed threatening the viability of the breed.  And people wonder why we speak out against those blood lines...

 

[CWshorthorns]

We must have the wrong shorthorns in our herd cause all of our cows rasie there calf as good or better than the father inlaws cross breed angus cattle. I wonder with what daimond said do i have shorthorns since they rasie there calfs that good? I would hate to be rasing and selling reg shorthons if infact they are not for the last 18 years.

 

[woltemathangus]

We went from talking about the heisman trophy winning bull to arguing about the shorthorn breed. When will we start the steerplanet debate team. Although I do catch myself waiting for the bashings on show cattle.



Steerplanet needs their own soap opera on daytime telelivision... I would tune in!
<rock>
Keep doin' what you are doin'!

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

Trevor grey, my family bred shorthorns in the 1970s for almost a decade and got away from them. Whenever I started showing, I wanted shorthorns. we again bred them for 10 years. I owned a bull called GCC Sundowner. a WHR SONNY X SS AUGUSTA PRIDE. Also owned a bull and worked for Woodside shorthorns. had females from Lehmans and some from WHR and even one from cates. I bought some shorthorns from a premier breeder in the state of PA and in that ten year spand, number one out on pasture these cows were atleast 200-300 ponds lighter than our angus, simmys, and clubcalf cows. Never once had one wean a calf within 100 pounds of our black calves. On top of that, we owned a female that was a MF Pacer son x Homedale Blizzard that in fact starved a calf. I will never own another shorthorn in my life. JMO. If you think they are great, more power to you, but first hand, I have personal experienced twice with shorthorns and I have never seen one milk better than a clubby including neighborng breeders.

Next, HAB kinda makes my point and doesnt realize it. I am not meaning that line breeding is all bad, If it is done once, it can be highly effective. They line bred those Galloways to find which ones were TH carriers. A single trait. That is my point. If you want to emphaize say milk production, sure line breed one. My point is, once it is done so many times that you might have one milk great but unless you cross it up at a certain point other trait really suffer. Hybrid Vigor was brought up and is an example of my point. There are times where hybrid vigor can be ignored by purebred breeders. at a certain point crossing them with a once cross cow can increase it, it also helps other traits. I agree that cows that get to be 3, 4, 5 way crosses are highly inconsistent. But in the show cattle world, there is no other breeding out there like it. Heck the show world isnt even consistent. I always hear peple joke how showing cattle is a cycle. Before Alias you didnt see the smoke sensation as much. Heck I remember when a hereford didnt stand a prayer in a crossbred class. I remember when they wanted cattle tall and no belly. no they want them short and belly draggers. in another ten years who knows what they will want. I feel it is hard to breed clubbys consistent whenever the whole industry isnt consistent as a whole. If I came off as bashing Line breeding, I didnt want to appear to do tht, I am saying that line breeding (too) much can actually regress your success because focusing on a single trait can be ineffective in the long run. the swine industry knows that, thats why they have formulas for mulity-trait selections making you able to weigh the importance of certain traits whil keeping others in mine. My herd bull is a linebred Ali. his calves look better than he does. But continuing to line breed them that way, I feel other traits would suffer, for example I feel I would be breeding cattle too framey to win jackpots. That is my point. Line breeding can pay major dividends, like the Galloways trying to do away with th. But Single trait selection like in the dairy cattle for milk production lead to a problems in other traits. Being able to line breed once and the culling system is a good way. and i agree get the bad genetics out of the woodpile. Friend of mine got an idea 5 years ago to every cow he had open in the fall that was supposed to be bred for spring he would cull. 1st year=17 open 2nd year=11 open 3rd=4 4th=1 and this year he had one. and he did that without line breeding. I am just saying that line breeding too many generations can sometimes be opposite of what we are wanting. And point 2, it is hard to breed for consistent cattle in the show world when it is always changing, the way we clip is always changing etc. The show catle world is ridiclous. We truly are all breeding for the one. problem is there is only 3 born a year out of how many? 500,000 at least? If i have ruffled any feathers i apologize, But I truly feel that line breeding is good one time, but after it is done sooo much it can go the opposite way throwing consisteny in certain traits, and sacrificing in many others. I have seen in not only in pigs but dogs and cattle as well.

also HAB, with wht your saying, it kind of makes since. We always associate the TH gene with hair, and Galloways can be hairy (atleast the ones i have seen)  (clapping)

I appreciate your thoughts. The problem I see is you bought the wrong animals for your situation. I to have ran all the trump show cattle lines. Not my cup of tea. I can assure you there are animals in every breed that excel and animals in every breed that suck unless they have a feed bucket in front of them. That's why I offered the free semen. The bulls I use or promote are the real deal. My cows have not seen grain in over 5 years. I will continue to push my herd for ever. No emotions. I will line breed. Line one Herefords anyone? Shoshone angus? It sure has worked for them.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Line breeding and single trait selection will ruin any herd. Leave the club calf people alone.lol they make more money than most people do. I dont understand why your so worried about cattle being consistent. Your profile pic is a shorthorn. only thing consistent about them is they look like aa damn dairy cow when you turn the, out on pasture and they milk like a heat wave heifer

You've officially lost all credibility.  Your cattle sense is nil.  How'd that coon footed heifer in your avitar do?

//// (lol) (clapping) <party> (lol) (pop) <party> <beer> O0

 

[frostback]

[/quote]

.  How'd that coon footed heifer in your avitar do?
[/quote]

What is  coon footed? Thought I knew a lot of terms but not sure of this one.

 

[KSanburg]

I appreciate your thoughts. The problem I see is you bought the wrong animals for your situation. I to have ran all the trump show cattle lines. Not my cup of tea. I can assure you there are animals in every breed that excel and animals in every breed that suck unless they have a feed bucket in front of them. That's why I offered the free semen. The bulls I use or promote are the real deal. My cows have not seen grain in over 5 years. I will continue to push my herd for ever. No emotions. I will line breed. Line one Herefords anyone? Shoshone angus? It sure has worked for them.

Yes the Hereford breeders that line breed seem to have good success, but I would say that there is just as much success with outcross programs or limited line breeding. How far back do you go and still call it line breeding? I follow some lines that I really like not that I necessarily intend to but seemingly there are some lines that continue to show up in my pedigrees. I will say that when I do find a total outcross that I get a real hybrid kick and most of the time I will see a hybrid kick with those heifers going back to the line. Do I believe that line breeding is the only way to go, heck no. I have had more fun with my cattle since I started outcrossing part of them to a couple of clubby bulls that I have had in years. Mind you that I am not breeding but about 25 cows each year but for the most part the calves I have had have been pretty good and by far more consistent than I ever thought they would be. I was told that it would be a total wreck so I expected the worst but it hasn’t happened yet. Now that being said this year will probably be a disaster.

One interesting thing that has come out of the club calves is that when my bull customers see the steers at a show they asked why I had cut that one and what bull he was out of. Then I have to explain what the deal is and that they are not PB, several of them have asked if I would keep them one because they see the benefit from the cross, they are breeding them to black cows so they really don’t care if they are a cross or not.
I will tell you that there are something’s about the L1 Herefords that I really don’t care for the biggest being their attitude. When I have used one seemingly that is one trait that does not carry through and maybe more than it being genetics it is the way the cattle are handled to begin with.

 

[chucksam]

Monopoly took off because of consistency. When I breed to monopoly I do not want them to look like him, I place him on a powerful, big boned, good framed cow and let him do the rest. You chose sires that compliment the female you are breeding, consistency is huge, that is why HW is failing away and you see others rise up. However, it's hard to beat a great HW.

Faiding*

FINALLY SOMEBODY THAT GETS IT!

 

[Quick fire]

Monopoly took off because of consistency. When I breed to monopoly I do not want them to look like him, I place him on a powerful, big boned, good framed cow and let him do the rest. You chose sires that compliment the female you are breeding, consistency is huge, that is why HW is failing away and you see others rise up. However, it's hard to beat a great HW.

Faiding*

FINALLY SOMEBODY THAT GETS IT!

;D

 

[RyanChandler]

.  How'd that coon footed heifer in your avitar do?
[/quote]

What is  coon footed? Thought I knew a lot of terms but not sure of this one.
[/quote]

It's where their pasterns look like this:

 

[frostback]

??? Thanks,, now its as clear as mud. Could anyone else tell me what he means?