Lautner's Hereford.

[HerefordGuy]

I agree... Check out Barbers website.  
http://www.barberranch.com/houston/houston1.htm
http://www.barberranch.com/sanantonio/sanantonio1.htm
They have many steers which they have shown or which they have breed then sold which have won the Hereford division at Ft. Worth, Houston, San Antonio.  PLUS, they have had SUPREME champion heifer twice at San Antonio.  
The majority of purebreed Herefords can't compete, but you can't say that all Herefords can't compete.  There's always an exception!  

 

[knabe]

 There's always an exception!  

may or may not be a black swan.

 

[Cattledog]

Good cattle are good cattle. Angus are great cattle. Just don't sell me a pen of 100% limi black cattle and tell me they will grade. Before the black hide deal exploded fat cattle graded 70% choice across the nation. Now 90% of cattle are black and the industry ave for choice in feedlots is right around 50%. Someone is going to have to explain to me haow this is progress. What we now have is a cow herd(nationally) of exotic black cattle that won't grade. But shazam....they are black.

Well said and Good point!  Sometimes it I need to take my blinders off.

 

[GONEWEST]

HEREFORDGUY............ did you notice that those winners from Barbers were 7-8 years ago?? Not happening anymore.

HEREFORDFOOTBALL you and your buddies get a load of those things and bring 'em on down here.

How many times have you guys seen the classifiers just throw out a Hereford marked steer with the reason "too good to be a Hereford?" There's a reason for that.

 

[herefordfootball]

HEREFORDGUY............ did you notice that those winners from Barbers were 7-8 years ago?? Not happening anymore.

HEREFORDFOOTBALL you and your buddies get a load of those things and bring 'em on down here.

How many times have you guys seen the classifiers just throw out a Hereford marked steer with the reason "too good to be a Hereford?" There's a reason for that.

It wasnt because it was "too good to be a hereford", it was because it had had white solid up the inside of the back leg and over half way up the rest of the legs. Hmmmm... I dont think that is really a purebred hereford trait. Oh and barbers won supreme overall in 2008 which if my math is correct was a year ago, so...  Oh and my buddies dont have to bring " 'em on down here" because they already dominate: Louisville, American Royal, Fort Worth, and do pretty good in Denver, so imo that speaks for itself.

 

[3HFarms]

I guess I need to go back and read all of the posts but why so anti hereford?

 

[HerefordGuy]

Seven years ago is about when Justin and Jason stopped showing.  One of their steers was champion in 2003, Grand Champion Polled Steer shown by Patrick Anthony, Canyon, TX. 
The Barbers grandchildren had the champion and reserve champion prospect steer at the Hereford Junior National this year, so we'll see what happens this year.
http://www.hereford.org/AHA/tabID__4056/tailored.aspx?tabID=4056

aj, I agree with the points you have made about the history of breeding up programs and the impact of black hide on carcass quality.

In commercial cattle, cross breeding is extremely important, I've heard it said, Heterosis is the only free lunch, or something along those lines.

So this thread started about a discussion about Red Rock.  How successful do you all think he will be at making Hereford-marked steers? 

 

[GONEWEST]

HEREFORDGUY............ did you notice that those winners from Barbers were 7-8 years ago?? Not happening anymore.

HEREFORDFOOTBALL you and your buddies get a load of those things and bring 'em on down here.

How many times have you guys seen the classifiers just throw out a Hereford marked steer with the reason "too good to be a Hereford?" There's a reason for that.

It wasnt because it was "too good to be a hereford", it was because it had had white solid up the inside of the back leg and over half way up the rest of the legs. Hmmmm... I dont think that is really a purebred hereford trait. Oh and barbers won supreme overall in 2008 which if my math is correct was a year ago, so...  Oh and my buddies dont have to bring " 'em on down here" because they already dominate: Louisville, American Royal, Fort Worth, and do pretty good in Denver, so imo that speaks for itself.

Like I said buddy, you have obviously not been to enough shows down where they have real cattle  . The classifers here and in Texas and OK use the "too good to be a Hereford ( or Angus) ALL THE TIME. Not because of marking restrictions.

 

[GONEWEST]

Your buddies dominate the steer shows where they have to be registered Herefords to compete? Is that what you are saying?? I don't think they have A Hereford steer show at Denver. Maybe not those other places either?? They have some at state fairs up there I know but I don't think they dominate anywhere they compete against crossbred steers that are colored like Herefords. And I can't find anywhere Barbers had a supreme steer at a Texas major in 2008. They had a Hereford heifer that was Supreme in the junior show in San Antonio in  2008, but that was against other registered breeds. So while your math may be good, your reading is a little suspect.

You get your buddies and their STEERS and come on down.

 

[herefordfootball]

So real cattle are crosses not purebreds? Huh I thought is was the other way around... Actually bud cattle are cattle and cattle that win are good cattle. And as I said before I have been to a couple of your shows, and have seen the crossed herfs, and imo they are phenotypically impressive cattle, but guess what so are some purebreds. Barber ranch is one example of that.  

Here in Indiana they use every little nit pick against you if you are showin purebred. We what you call "sift" purebred animals. There are three breed reps, or I guess you could call them "purest" judges that each have two marbles, one black and one white. They have a coffee can that that each drops a marble into, black to kick the calf out, white to let it pass. If you get 2 black out of three, you're out. Oh and you better scrub your hooves good on the herfs because a solid black hoof will get you a black marble.

 

[HerefordGuy]

I've heard the too good to be a Hereford or Angus.  Of course the average three-way cross is going to be better that the average purebreed.  That is the beauty of cross breeding, and that is why three-way crosses are so popular in the club calf deal.  

If three-way crosses classify as maines, Simmental, Charolais, etc., I don't see why a three way cross can't classify as a Hereford.  Classification criteria should be applied equally across breeds.  Either all breeds have to be purebreed/registered or all breeds should allow three-way crosses.  

Like I said before, I enjoy see a good Hereford-marked steer no matter what percent Hereford he is, but let's keep the Hereford herd book closed.

Purebreed breeds are important because they provide heterosis.  These breeds are isolated, become different from one another, and when crossed provide hybrid vigor.  If they are not isolated, they stay similar, and provide little or no hybrid vigor.

 

[DLD]

What you're not gettin' herfordfootball, is that steers in Texas have to look very Hereford to classify.  Black hooves, white legs, linebacks, rednecks, more than just the slightest bit of eye pigment are just a few of the things that'll get you gate in Texas.  Oklahoma is slightly more lenient, but basically what classifies here would classify at a national show.  At least some of the other states across the south are basically the same.

HerefordGuy, great post.  I agree.

 

[herefordfootball]

Your buddies dominate the steer shows where they have to be registered Herefords to compete? Is that what you are saying?? I don't think they have A Hereford steer show at Denver. Maybe not those other places either?? They have some at state fairs up there I know but I don't think they dominate anywhere they compete against crossbred steers that are colored like Herefords. And I can't find anywhere Barbers had a supreme steer at a Texas major in 2008. They had a Hereford heifer that was Supreme in the junior show in San Antonio in  2008, but that was against other registered breeds. So while your math may be good, your reading is a little suspect.

You get your buddies and their STEERS and come on down.

Whoo noo!!! I dont believe there is a herf steer show in denver either, fort worth is the only one I know of that has a herf steer show. Their steer has also been grand at jr. natl.s the past I dont know how many years in a row? I think that that'll compete with your crosses.

So while your math may be good, your reading is a little suspect.

Teachers told me the same thing!  (lol) Kidding!

 

[herefordfootball]

What you're not gettin' herfordfootball, is that steers in Texas have to look very Hereford to classify.  Black hooves, white legs, linebacks, rednecks, more than just the slightest bit of eye pigment are just a few of the things that'll get you gate in Texas.  Oklahoma is slightly more lenient, but basically what classifies here would classify at a national show.  

DLD did you change your avatar lately? I know they have to have the look to classify. But why have I seen the white legs show at Fort Worth?
When it all boils down you could get hereford papers on a black calf if you wanted. So ya they would "classify at a national show, the question is what happens when the judge sees through your marked steer?

Herefordguy great post.

 

[herefordfootball]

I think the herefords should definitely have a closed herdbook.

There are some purebreds that would beat the crossed herfs and there are some crossed that would beat the pures.

It is virtually impossible to prove which is better. You could go back and forth all day on who won what where with a pure or a cross.

So Red Rock, nice lookin bull, would I use him no, would I use him if I was catering to showman who go to classifieds shows I still wouldnt use him, he's not proven. Now in some cases I would use an unproven bull, but if he cant throw the pattern....

 

[HerefordGuy]

Alright, so lets take this post back to the beginning...  Do you think Red Rock's steers will classify?  I see that he has a white mark on his loin/back.  Would the cow have to be pretty conservatively marked? 
Anyone know what his dam's breeding is like? 

Anyone want to buy a heifer to bred to him?    Call my mom, make an offer!!!  (clapping) (thumbsup) 

 

[DLD]

Yep, changed it last night.  That's the Hereford steer we (my kids) showed this spring.  Reserve champion Hereford at our county and second in class 2 at OKC - he was a little small framed for Ward.

I don't claim to know what it takes for a Hereford steer to classify where you're from, but I know what it takes for one to classify in TX and OK, and I know what the registered Hereford/Polled Herefords look like that show in Denver, Kansas City, Junior Nationals and so on.  I know what I'm talkin' about when I say that some of those wouldn't get through Hereford or Polled Hereford steer classification at Fort Worth.

You are absolutely right that you can paper a black one as a Hereford but he/she will get kicked out of a show.  But take a Hereford marked crossbred and paper it Hereford and it could get kicked out... but it prob'ly won't.

We have a little set of cows that we're tryin' to breed for Hereford show steers.  Most of 'em are pretty much Hereford, some are half bloods, one's a pb Simmental, one's out of a black baldie 1/4 Hereford bull and a red Maine cow - you would never find her if I didn't tell you which one she is.  But all I'm trying to do is raise show steers. They'll get a.i.'ed to a Hereford or Hereford marked bull, and turned out with the black ones for cleanup.  If I get a heifer calf good enough to show, she'll only show Hereford if she's out of two registered Hereford parents.  If she qualifies for another breed she'll be papered that way, if she doesn't she'll have to show commercial.  Why is it that  so wrong?

 

[herefordfootball]

Alright, so lets take this post back to the beginning...  Do you think Red Rock's steers will classify?  I see that he has a white mark on his loin/back.  Would the cow have to be pretty conservatively marked? 
Anyone know what his dam's breeding is like? 

Anyone want to buy a heifer to bred to him?    Call my mom, make an offer!!!  (clapping) (thumbsup) 

OH NO!!! The crossed guys got to YOU!!!  (lol)

Personally I dont think they will classify, I dont know they let quite a bit pass.  

But if it is a cross it's a cross. Chianina aka Registered crossbred.

 

[herefordfootball]

Yep, changed it last night.  That's the Hereford steer we (my kids) showed this spring.  Reserve champion Hereford at our county and second in class 2 at OKC - he was a little small framed for Ward.

I don't claim to know what it takes for a Hereford steer to classify where you're from, but I know what it takes for one to classify in TX and OK, and I know what the registered Hereford/Polled Herefords look like that show in Denver, Kansas City, Junior Nationals and so on.  I know what I'm talkin' about when I say that some of those wouldn't get through Hereford or Polled Hereford steer classification at Fort Worth.

You are absolutely right that you can paper a black one as a Hereford but he/she will get kicked out of a show.  But take a Hereford marked crossbred and paper it Hereford and it could get kicked out... but it prob'ly won't.

We have a little set of cows that we're tryin' to breed for Hereford show steers.  Most of 'em are pretty much Hereford, some are half bloods, one's a pb Simmental, one's out of a black baldie 1/4 Hereford bull and a red Maine cow - you would never find her if I didn't tell you which one she is.  But all I'm trying to do is raise show steers.  If I get a heifer calf good enough to show, she'll only show Hereford if she's out of two registered Hereford parents.  If she qualifies for another breed she'll be papered that way, if she doesn't she'll have to show commercial.  Why is it that  so wrong?

That is a good lookin steer. You must have a tough county fair, because he looks like he could dominate from that picture. Is he out of your guys cow? He looks good.

No its not wrong for her to show commercial or low simmi or maine. If she is a good female, then by gosh I would keep her around to make calves too. But I wouldnt reg. the calves herf if they arent. But since you dont need papers for the steer show then she works out good.

Again I like that steer. He looks massive, for a herf  .

 

[HerefordGuy]

Yep, changed it last night.  That's the Hereford steer we (my kids) showed this spring.  Reserve champion Hereford at our county and second in class 2 at OKC - he was a little small framed for Ward.

I don't claim to know what it takes for a Hereford steer to classify where you're from, but I know what it takes for one to classify in TX and OK, and I know what the registered Hereford/Polled Herefords look like that show in Denver, Kansas City, Junior Nationals and so on.  I know what I'm talkin' about when I say that some of those wouldn't get through Hereford or Polled Hereford steer classification at Fort Worth.

You are absolutely right that you can paper a black one as a Hereford but he/she will get kicked out of a show.  But take a Hereford marked crossbred and paper it Hereford and it could get kicked out... but it prob'ly won't.

We have a little set of cows that we're tryin' to breed for Hereford show steers.  Most of 'em are pretty much Hereford, some are half bloods, one's a pb Simmental, one's out of a black baldie 1/4 Hereford bull and a red Maine cow - you would never find her if I didn't tell you which one she is.  But all I'm trying to do is raise show steers.  If I get a heifer calf good enough to show, she'll only show Hereford if she's out of two registered Hereford parents.  If she qualifies for another breed she'll be papered that way, if she doesn't she'll have to show commercial.  Why is it that  so wrong?

DLD, I think that is a great way to go about it.  From what I can see in a little avatar picture, I really like your kid's steer.  Good luck with your cattle.