Lautner's Hereford.

[DLD]

Thanks herefordfootball. No we didn't raise him, wish I could say we did. He was a stout one, just a little smaller framed (just right for my 10 year old, though).  Took him and a couple of black ones to Tyson's at Amarillo 3 weeks after OKC and he graded prime and yielded a low 3, at just under 1300#.  That's why I like 'em.

Edit to add - Thanks HerefordGuy, too. Here's a bigger pic.

I just now bothered to look at Red Rock.  Nice enough bull, I guess.  I've never been much of a Heat Seeker fan, personally.  Of course I'll say this and he'll be the next big thing.

My opinion and experience, for what it's worth, is that these crossed up ones generally aren't very consistent on color pattern.  I'm not saying people shouldn't use them, I do it myself,  but just that you'd best not bank on them throwing one that'll pass for a Hereford everytime.  Some of 'em may do it, but the majority won't, especially using crossed up bulls on crossed up cows.  They might be just baldies (red or black, even) or they might be spotted up or even roan...

 

[aj]

Not that this is about the bull....but I read in the Shorthorn Country that a package deal may be offered on a dna test where parentage, defects, and several things are tested for. The thing can be ironic in some ways cause the people wanting clean cattle end up paying for tests and the ones who don't care about defects don't test and don't pay. However as much info that is gleaned from dna testing maybe testing will become a accepted cost of business. They don't have the markers for say carcass all figured out but maybe they are not far off.jmo

 

[Ohioteerchick]

hahaha .my dad had told me that one day they would try to promote a hereford.
we use herefords ourselves. we have purebred herefords that are bred to club calves and they have had some great calves

 

[Jill]

I don't claim to know what it takes for a Hereford steer to classify where you're from, but I know what it takes for one to classify in TX and OK, and I know what the registered Hereford/Polled Herefords look like that show in Denver, Kansas City, Junior Nationals and so on.  I know what I'm talkin' about when I say that some of those wouldn't get through Hereford or Polled Hereford steer classification at Fort Worth.

Just need to clear up 1 thing here, I don't know about any of the other shows, but I can guarantee you Kansas City steers DO NOT show by breed and I can also guarantee you that there hasn't been a registered Hereford/Polled Hereford that made the sale in the past 10 years, I don't know what show you are watching, but it didn't happen here.  It has just been in the past 5 years or so that you could even stand in the top 4 in class with a colored steer and unless the trend changes drastically, you won't see a purebred Hereford stand at the top in my lifetime. 
Junior National shows are a completely different type of show, you can brag that you won Jr. Nationals, but they are only showing against registered cattle, when you get into a crossbred show where you are talking about Hereford "marked" cattle that is a whole different ballgame and you are naive to think it isn't.
You brought up your friends winning Supreme and I don't dispute what you're saying, but I'm guessing you are talking about the heifers side and that is a whole different story, I think we can all agree that there are some really nice Hereford heifers out there where we disagree is on the steer side of the show.

 

[DLD]

Easy now...  I was referring to the open class Hereford and Polled Hereford breeding cattle at Kansas City and Denver.  I know quite well that those shows don't split steers into breeds.  In an earlier post, I specified that I was talking about the Hereford steers in Texas being as much or more Hereford looking than what was showing in those open class breeding shows.  I realize that maybe the particular post that you quoted didn't make that completely clear (that was what I meant by "registered")- sorry 'bout that, but I think if you'll look back to my earlier posts, you'll see what I meant.

Also, that wasn't me that said anything about my friends winning Supreme Champion's with registered Herefords.  I think if you'll read the last couple of pages of this thread again, you might find that I stayed completely out of that part of the discussion - until now.  Supreme champion heifers tend to be more about what the judges feel is the best representative of each particular breed, not neccesarily about best individual. 

Indeed you're right, steer shows are a whole different game, and I believe I'm not too naive about that. Steer shows tend to be more about the best individual - I guess that's why I like showing steers better.  We feed alot of breed steers, but I hate nothing worse than hearing "Well, he's pretty good for a Hereford (or Angus)"... I like to feed the kind are pretty good.  Period. 

 

[Jill]

Sorry DLD, that wasn't directed at you, I was responding to the original statement made by herefordfootball just happened to pull it out of your post.

 

[afhm]

Denver was considering going back to showing by breeds to help increase entries, what ever became of that?

 

[DLD]

Denver was considering going back to showing by breeds to help increase entries, what ever became of that?

Can't remember the exact year, around 10 years ago, they were trying pretty hard to get the breeds back, but they still insisted on 12 head to make a breed.  I believe 10 Herefords showed up that year, and they ended up showing with the crosses.  Someone, I'm not sure if it was the AHA and/or APHA, or maybe the Colorado Hereford/Polled Hereford association(s), went ahead and kicked in the prize money they had gathered up and hired a judge and had a Hereford steer show, like the night before.  I know all this 'cause my neice won that show and ended up placing second in the regular steer show and getting in the premium sale.

They may have tryed to push for breeds again since then, but I don't see it ever happening unless they back off the 12 head thing.  I understand why they want that many, but it's hard to come from pretty much no breed steers to 12 of each.

 

[kane1598]

honestly, i really think that his calves will classify. with just the little bit that i have learned in the past month, i would say that he is almost a definate hereford steer maker on the right cow. Just think, the cow we sold is out of heatseeker (black) and her mother has big goggle eyes and she came out almost the perfect hereford color. And the heifer prospect we sold in marke 100% perfectly like a hereford out of Dr. Who another black bull. This bull of lautners will almost certainly produce color classifiers, half of it is the cow.

 

[herefordfootball]

I don't claim to know what it takes for a Hereford steer to classify where you're from, but I know what it takes for one to classify in TX and OK, and I know what the registered Hereford/Polled Herefords look like that show in Denver, Kansas City, Junior Nationals and so on.  I know what I'm talkin' about when I say that some of those wouldn't get through Hereford or Polled Hereford steer classification at Fort Worth.

Just need to clear up 1 thing here, I don't know about any of the other shows, but I can guarantee you Kansas City steers DO NOT show by breed and I can also guarantee you that there hasn't been a registered Hereford/Polled Hereford that made the sale in the past 10 years, I don't know what show you are watching, but it didn't happen here.  It has just been in the past 5 years or so that you could even stand in the top 4 in class with a colored steer and unless the trend changes drastically, you won't see a purebred Hereford stand at the top in my lifetime. 
Junior National shows are a completely different type of show, you can brag that you won Jr. Nationals, but they are only showing against registered cattle, when you get into a crossbred show where you are talking about Hereford "marked" cattle that is a whole different ballgame and you are naive to think it isn't.
You brought up your friends winning Supreme and I don't dispute what you're saying, but I'm guessing you are talking about the heifers side and that is a whole different story, I think we can all agree that there are some really nice Hereford heifers out there where we disagree is on the steer side of the show.

Supreme heifers produce Supreme steers.  ;D

 

[Jill]

Unfortunetly, that is not a true statement, there are exceptions to ever rule, but most of the supreme heifers don't produce squat, it is the 800 calf that is meant to be a cow that will go on to produce your best champion steers.

 

[herefordfootball]

Unfortunetly, that is not a true statement, there are exceptions to ever rule, but most of the supreme heifers don't produce squat, it is the 800 calf that is meant to be a cow that will go on to produce your best champion steers.

It could go either way, it's all a gamble. I've seen more good calves out of good cows than good calves out of cheaper cows. My experience only though.

 

[DLD]

honestly, i really think that his calves will classify. with just the little bit that i have learned in the past month, i would say that he is almost a definate hereford steer maker on the right cow. Just think, the cow we sold is out of heatseeker (black) and her mother has big goggle eyes and she came out almost the perfect hereford color. And the heifer prospect we sold in marke 100% perfectly like a hereford out of Dr. Who another black bull. This bull of lautners will almost certainly produce color classifiers, half of it is the cow.

He'll almost certainly produce some calves that will classify Hereford, and he'll almost certainly produce some that won't.  How many times have the matings been repeated that got you the cow and calf you're talking about?  I'm willing to bet that they won't come out quite so well marked everytime - they might, if that's what you want, I hope they do.  I don't mean any offense, but I've been playing with this deal for 25+ years, and I know several others that have, too, and they'll all tell you that when you get them this mixed up, they're just not all going to classify.

 

[DLD]

Supreme heifers produce Supreme steers.  ;D

Maaayyybbbeee.... If they're bred to show steer producing bulls... 

 

[herefordfootball]

Supreme heifers produce Supreme steers.  ;D

Maaayyybbbeee.... If they're bred to show steer producing bulls...   

HaHa!!! For Sure!!!! 

 

[kane1598]

when bred to heatseeker or heatwave, the dam of our donor always has hereford marked calves. They are not always as perfect as some, but most of them are good enough that even hereford people assume they are at least half bloods. Of course, it is tough to replicate, but it seems like some cows that we have known just throw that color pattern pretty easily. I have seen heatwaves that are hereford marked that have absolutely no hereford in them. it is luck of the draw, but that color pattern seems to be dominant, at least with our limited experience.

 

[Bucker]

DLD, what was the breeding on your kids steer?

 

[DLD]

Honestly Bucker, I can't really tell you much.  I can tell you that he was not a.i. sired, and I'm pretty sure that his sire is a registered Hereford.  The breeder runs lots of cows, most of 'em registered Herefords.  I really didn't even quiz him too hard about how he was bred, 'cause I liked the way he looked and that was what mattered to me.

 

[kane1598]

This is the dam of our donor female. She is a 99 model I think. She is a Nuff Said X PB Hereford. She is for sale. She has had three hereford marked daughters; two by no prisoners, one by heatseeker. A close friend of mine owns her, and says she is his best cow.

 

[aj]

I know that the Shorthorns can get into some weird color patterns when they are papered purebred. I think it is because of the appendix program and I think they are similar to the old colored Simmental from Swizterland(genetically). I know the old original simmental were really maternal(like a shorthorn). Now I think the black Simmental are probably still maternal but lower on milk(more like Angus) which makes sense. I know we have a Durham red bull calf(3-4ths Shorthorn and 1-4th Red Angus). He almost has a Herford look to him. We are going to show him as a Shorthorn plus at the Colorado State fair. He's awfull good phenotypically anyway. I know Val had a registered shorthorn steer that looked off colored and won some Kansas shows. I was thinking they maybe even blood typed the calf and he came up purebred. So you can have Herford looking cattle with minimum Herford in them that look pure Herford and registered shorthorns that look Simmental-ish. Kinda weird huh. I gues it goes back to judging a ...bull show using "Breed Character" as a major goal. What does all this color deal say about "black hided cattle"? I think it means that cattle can be black ........with very little Angus. Don't know if it's right or wrong but it is a fact.