Line 1 Herford type deal

[aj]

Flies tend to aquire resisence to insecticides.............through genetic drift via small mutations I assume.

 

[garybob]

Bingo! That's the reason for the Research, which was to eliminate the need for Tags. Many producers in the Upland South simply do not understand the whole Pyrethroid/Organophosphate/Carbamate-Dust Bag/Fallow Year Rotation.

Maybe some Producers do rotate their Insecticide Tags nowadays, but back in the late 80's and early 90's, folks would use the same brand of Tag up to 7 years in a row. And, when they did, Man-Alive, the swarms of Horn Flies were like Literal Clouds, above the Corrals and Catch Pens, during any type of Herd-gathering.

GB

 

[garybob]

Gary.....the deal I read......it said.......they were watching cows in the same pasture. They attempted to kind of a fly count. There were flys on all cows but some of them appeared to to have twice as many on them.......day after day. So I'm not sure what the difference would be......an oil on the hide? Hair follicle density? Would some cows have bos indicus way back in their pedigree or something........a throw back?

No Bos Indicus in the UA Cattle Herds....Two types of Black Angus.....Horned Herfs & Polled Herfs ( kept as separate herds in different locations), as well as some Fullblood white Chianinas (that were donated to the University by maybe???? an Alumnus? I don't remember them very well, as there wasn't very many of them).

Hope this helps.

GB

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

According to Kit Pharo all cos are born with the same number of hairs. Each hair releases a oil. The taller the cow the less dense the hair is resulting in more places for flies to bite.

His words. Not mine.

 

[garybob]

According to Kit Pharo all cos are born with the same number of hairs. Each hair releases a oil. The taller the cow the less dense the hair is resulting in more places for flies to bite.

His words. Not mine.

I think the Holy Grail lies in BOTH theories presented. Both Kit's and Dr. Steeleman's.

GB

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

I've had totally slicked out bulls that were infested with flies. I've noticed the more you m

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

Stupid phone. I was saying the more cattle are moved to fresh grass the less flies. Even if it not very far. Flies around here stay close to the poop.

 

[RyanChandler]

Yea buddy, but the hair cost of a 'totally slicked off' shorthorn is still nothing like that of a slicked off Brangus. 

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

Cant argue that. I've never been around a Brangus. I find the whole cows are all born with the same amount of hairs a stretch. That's just weird.

 

[nate53]

Our cows have pretty much the same hair coat and yet some have a ton of flies on them and some have hardly any, we don't use fly tags. 
Some people get ate by bugs and some don't get touched.  Is it the oil on the skin, hair density, skin thickness or skin texture, or do insects like certain blood types over others?
I heard an old timer say once that the thin skinned animals have more flies on them. 
Does Kit count the hairs on all the animals. ;D  Kits got a rating system for fly tolerance, I'm not sure what goes into it though.
I will agree that moving cows helps.

Xbar - about half of my purebred shorthorns have had eye trouble at some point (some multiple times), pinkeye or they got something in it.  Several different bloodlines.  It might be all the fescue heads though?

 

[knabe]

According to Kit Pharo all cos are born with the same number of hairs. Each hair releases a oil. The taller the cow the less dense the hair is resulting in more places for flies to bite.

His words. Not mine.

that simply can not be true.  there is variation in everything. including the oil secreted. some of this defense mechanism can be stored in methylation and other mechanisms along with some genetic mechanism probably.  it really can't be as simple as a static hair count and oil secretion level.

 

[RyanChandler]

(lol) of course that's a stretch.  The gullibility of some... 

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

Yes I agree folks are gullible. But man has that guy built a following. I question him sometimes on things he claims on Facebook. . He doesn't like that.


He has made a nice niche for himself. I personally think he's painting himself into a corner but that's just me.

 

[aj]

I think we need to be careful about blasting Kit. They are doing studies in Australia,South America, and on and on. There is a hell of a lot we don't know about this stuff. Us honkies have only been in Nort America with cattle a couple hundred years. What about the preceding 20,000 years in North America. There are hundreds of different flies in the world......variations.......the same flies called different names. Does "black fly" catch it? I'm assuming that dna in a cow pretty much is engrained with a certain number of hair follicles. Unless there is genetic drift through mutation. Blasting kit with a bumper sticker type phrase is a bit of a cheap shot.......imo

 

[RyanChandler]

Xbar - about half of my purebred shorthorns have had eye trouble at some point (some multiple times), pinkeye or they got something in it.  Several different bloodlines.  It might be all the fescue heads though?

I've always had dark pigmented cattle- Angus cross, not SH (lol) - so perhaps that's why pinkeye has nvr really been an issue. Thinking back- Iv fed many many Holstein steers and pinkeye was a constant issue with them as well. My grandads advice was just to write it off to the poor immunity of purebred steins. But with them being dark pigmented(most) it got me to thinking more - maybe theres another culprit.

I have talked to a board member for the Hereford Assoc of South Africa since. His experience is that eye set is the primary culprit of pink eye.  Anecdotal, perhaps, but like I said, the findings in my herd concur with the research he's done.  There are many SH bulls that have this protruded set to their eyes. I suggest selecting against this trait. Not to mention, there's not a cattleman in the country that doesn't associate those bug eyes with 'dairy' breeds.  And that's the last thing Shorthorns need around here- a telltale to their milking roots.

Kit's an intelligent man. I just dont subscribe to many of the conclusions he forms. He is the king of the strawman fallacy and suppressing evidence. Maybe it's not intentional, but at a minimum, it's inadvertently overlooked.  He lost my interest when he claimed that w/o intervention of man, all cattle when phenotypically evolve into the form of the cattle he's already breeding.  This is just exhausting on so many levels.  As if he's unfimiliar with the Texas Longhorn- and their evolved phenotype.

 

[oakview]

We had some pinkeye problems in our Shorthorns in the late 60's and early 70's.  It coincided with the infusion of polled blood into the herd through Fair Acres Emblem x, a son of Boa Kae White Tornado x, and the Leader cattle (21st and 9th)  No milking Shorthorn in them.  I did notice the polled calves had more of a protruding eye shape, but have no valid evidence that it led to increased pinkeye problems.  We had a neighbor to the north that had serioius pinkeye problems in his Angus year after year.  Perhaps some of his flies that didn't like black hair came down the creek for a visit and found our light haired Shorthorns more to their liking.  Two of his cows floated down the creek after a flood one year.  Talk about a good time getting them out of the creek!  We haven't had more than an occasionl watery eye for many years.  If we get one now, it seems to be late in the summer when it is dry and dusty.  Perhaps certain weeds mature and irritate eyes, too.  In the early 70's, dad AIed a few cows to a Santa Gertrudis bull, perhaps mostly to irritate me.  I remember having to treat a couple of those calves, too.

 

[RyanChandler]

What do you mean 'no milking shorthorn' in them? The assoc hadnt even been split but about 15years when the 21st was born. 

 

[knabe]

Nobody bashed kit.

If he's going to say something like hair count and oil, he needs to publish it so people can see for themselves if it's true.

How did he measure? How many did he measure? 

What breeds did he measure?

 

[aj]

Kit travels the world......he sees alot of different enviroments. I got the impression that he was building on other scientist publications. The surface has just been scratched here. I don't think he is thye only one one working on this stuff. So far it's hunches and trying to study the deal. I live only 100 miles from Kit and my brother has used some his bulls and semen.......so I may biased.

 

[RyanChandler]

He has a frame 4 1400lb reg angus cow that I'm in love with.  That's bout it tho.