New Breeds-boom or bust

[aj]

I got to wondering about the historical results of new breeds in say North America. I came up with the following examples. Chiangus,Braford,Beefmaster,Brahmousin,Brangus,Charbray,Red Brangus, and Santa Gertrudis. Are these breeds sucessfull? Are there other examples? What are the biggest busts and biggest booms? The Red Brangus deal makes sense to me because the color red might theoretically work better than black. What does it take to start a new breed? I spose its considered a non- profit.......or not. Could 5 breeders start a new breed successfully? Would it take 50? Would there be interest in a Maine-Angus breed. Gelbvieh- Angus breed. I guess what got me thinking about this was the "Durham Red" deal. It seems like to me that the Durham Red are cattle that look like Red Angus yet have the maternal influence of the Shorthorn. Is that why the program was a numerical bomb? Shorthorn breeders like the looks of the Shorthorn and are not interested in an appendix program that produced cattle that look more like Red Angus. What are your experiences? It seems like there are enough breeds out there allready. How ever with changing climates(weather and financial) I spose diversity could end up being good. Thanks in advance.

 

[aj]

Was the ankina a bust. In the Angus breed I always heard about Ohldes Angus 2 cattle. There was a rumour that he might get them in the book but it never happened. In some ways I think it is cool that the Angus and Herfords didn't allow the appendix deal to go down. Set a standard and stick to it. However some people say that there is enough holstein in the Black Angus breed to sink a battleship. And enough Simmental in herfords to supply the 101st and 82nd airbourne divisions. Are we running around the tree 5 times on this?

 

[BBP]

How about Lowlines?

 

[aj]

Good point. Is there a source somewhere that lists breeds annual reigistrations? I know it always amazed about the hate the Herfords take yet they always have big numbers of registrations. Is it because they are some great big ranches involved?

 

[ROMAX]

Good point. Is there a source somewhere that lists breeds annual reigistrations? I know it always amazed about the hate the Herfords take yet they always have big numbers of registrations. Is it because they are some great big ranches involved?

I love a hereford cow as long as she is NOT  bred hereford.

 

[aj]

I guess amerifax and Red Angus would be "new breeds" to North America. Or is this tinkling on a tadpole?

 

[knabe]

Would there be interest in a Maine-Angus breed.

it already exists.  it's called the american maine anjou association.

angus II were higher percentage amerifax.  he still sells them without the label of amerifax.  really no need to register them as angus as they brought good prices.

amerifax = american friesian angus cross.

there really isn't a need for a new breed.

there is a need to preserve what breeds had and are losing or have lost and i'm not referring to size.

 

[aj]

I was thinking more of a non show ring Maine-Angus breed.....no lethal genetic defects....maybe one quarter Maine and 3 quarters Agus. Aren't breeds always evolving(at least the last 300 years or so). Is a race really a race in humans(in reference to the last 10,000 years or so)?

 

[knabe]

a race is just a population that had some time in isolation and has some sort of thing that makes it unique, some dna or a phenotype.

liberals will tell you race is a social construct and there is no such thing as race.

i can tell you from personal experience, it is pretty easy using dna to tell races apart.

social constructs favor differences in dna.  it's a form of selection.  denying that keeps the argument circular, and therefore impossible to discuss.

maine's mostly have no defects now.  no breed will be free of defects.

as far as 10,000 years, that number is a good number because several populations have evolved in that and shorter amounts of time to cause confusion on whether two populations were different species or not.

breeds are always evolving whatever a breed is.  i guess a breed is anything that can breed.

 

[simmyman67]

Simbrah

 

[ROMAX]

Does anyone even have beef friesen anymore?or do we just call them veal?

 

[aj]

Are there any Maine Anjou breeders who use the maine anjou-angus composite that aim at the commercial industry?

 

[twistedhshowstock]

I guess I am a little confused by what specifically your asking in your post? Are you asking for breeds that have their own registry or simply composites that are used? I could be just mistaken but I didnt realize that Charbray was even a registered breed, but they are somewhat popular it certain areas of the south. The Chi-Angus are just registered with the Chi association to my knowledge, because of the numbers of them being shown they get their own classes at Chi shows, but I have also seen a few shows that have Chi-Maine classes.  I really wouldnt consider any of those breeds "new breeds" necessarily.  To me they are breeds that have been around for a fairly decent amount of time, they are just starting to gain some popularity. I guess if 3 people wanted to go together and form their own breed and start a registry they could, how popular it got would really all depend on their marketing ability and if there were truly any quality to the cattle.  As far as breeds geared toward commercial cattleman, I dont think registry is gonna affect them much.  I am sure there are some commercial cattleman out there somewhere using a Maine-Angus composite, they just arent registered and I doubt those individuals using them would be interested in starting a registry.
I guess my personal opinion is I dont really see many, if any new registries starting. I can however see a continuation of the recent trend for purebred registries developing procedures for papering composites using their breed(i.e. Shorthorn Plus, Maine-Tainer, Beefmaster Advancer, E6, Star 5, etc etc) but I dont see any of new registries popping up, unless any of these hybrids become so popular that they split off from the purebred registry that started them.

 

[aj]

I googled the Black Herford breed. For the life of me I can't find what the Angus %-Herford % are thought to be in the breed. Seems to be a big secret. Apparently existing Black Herford bulls are mated to registered Herfords. Then if the calf is a Black baldie the resulting calf is elgible for registery in the Black Herford assn? Almost seems like a ponzi scheme. I couldn't see where Black herford assn. members are allowed to participate in the initial Angus- Herford cross. How does the Santa Gertrudis breed handle it? Can a Santa Gertrudis assn. member start in on the initial f-1 cross of Shortie-Brahman? Could 5 breeders start a new breed? The Shangus breed. It would be breeding of say 50%Shorthorn-%Red Angus. Humour me here.......do you need to form a LLC or a corporation. Do you form a non-profit organization? How is the Black Angus deal set up? As a 5 breeder organization I spose you need a president and a what.....treasure. You wouldn't have a ceo i would guess. Are you liable in a law suit against the breed cause you are such a small organization? Do you print little pedigrees out on a home computer? How does the Black herford deal work? How many memebers do they have? How did the Red Angus do it in what the 50's. Wasn't it just 10 members that kinda started them up. Would there be 10 breeders that would like to set up kind of a Red Angus-Shorthorn new breed? Kinda goofy I guess. I would be willing to try the deal. I thought that the chiangus was a breed and the ankina was a different breed. I would hve to google the stuff again.

 

[aj]

The numbers I got off of one website and the registration numbers.Santa Gertrudis 12,000-Beefmaster 40,000 head  Ankina 1000 head  Amerifax 1,000 head      Red Brangus 1,000 head      Lowline 1,000 head    Gelbray 1,000 head      Angus 270,000 head    Black Herfords 1,000      Brangus 26,000 head        Brafords 3,000 head . The 1,000 number was 1,000 head or less on the graph.

 

[sue]

Aj
Now here is a good post.
  Fuel prices are hanging at $4/gallon. Corn at 7.50  and now we wonder why folks struggle to pay a registration fee?
What is the value of a reg paper on "high input cattle"?? Do I go and pay for a reg animal with no forage capability or do I go a seek out a 10 or 20 year operation of low input genetics?  Imagine that - a  operation that hires a phd type to work as a consultant/marketing rep?  Take a look at 5L Red Angus ???
Hey any very good purebred deal is "all ready " offering a composite- very good post.  I want to try Billie's roast beef sandwich ? is this only offered in the spring or can we try for late fall?

 

[justme]

YES there are Maine-Anjou breeders aiming at the commercial man.  Try Ebersole Cattle Company...they are doing so well they are even producing grass fed beef and marketing it directly in Iowa.  We go both ways.  I feel there is nothing wrong with good producing animal that looks good also, we gear ours toward calving ease and maternal lines.  Have you look at Trueline Maines or Carlson maine-anjou?  Sure there kids and grandkids show, but look at the carcass data they are collecting.  I know Rick retains ownership and follows them right thru the kill floor collecting data.    If you get out there and look they are there, you just need to look!

 

[aj]

Cool.

 

[DiamondMCattle]

To be registered black hereford they have to be at least 5/8 hereford

 

[aj]

Cool..........they are also a all British breed composite with essentially no exotic blood.